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  1. #151
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    The only reason the United States supports Israel so much is because rich business interests believe they're the key to The Rapture/Armageddon/Etc. It really has nothing to do with WWIII and extermination of the Muslims.
    To be fair, genuine guilt over allowing the holocaust to happen and relatively recent but nonetheless culturally entrenched identification with the Israeli people plays a larger role; regardless, no real strategic advantage is gained from our alliance with Israel, its a matter of values and obligation.

  2. #152
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Sure it has. It's kept the Middle East unstable. An unstable Middle East means no OPEC oil embargo. Preventing the oil crisis from ever happening again has been the primary aim of our policy over there since the mid 1970s.
    1.) What was the cause of the OPEC embargo again?

    2.) The Embargo ultimately failed due to defection for economic gain by its own participants, and oil sources are more varied now.

  3. #153
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Sure it has. It's kept the Middle East unstable. An unstable Middle East means no OPEC oil embargo. Preventing the oil crisis from ever happening again has been the primary aim of our policy over there since the mid 1970s.
    I don't think so. Saddam was a thorn in OPECs side. With him out of the way (killed) they were able to raise oil prices astronomically. They bribed/lobbied our politicians all of the time thats one of the main reasons we retaliated against other countries when it was primarily Saudi Arabian terrorists who planned and executed 9/11.

    The politicians interest is not the interests of our nations people. It is money. And they got a lot of it for selling out the American People and getting us stuck in these absurd drawn out invasions.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  4. #154
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    1. Opposition to Western and Soviet interventionism, combined with the end of Bretton Woods.

    2. Defections occurred due to greater instability in the region, and the US getting to Saudi Arabia re: petrodollars (already having the Shah in its back pocket). SA is the linchpin in OPEC, so we offer them stability while making sure the rest of the region is a quagmire without means of colluding with one another.

  5. #155
    THREADKILLER Prototype's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    No; Israel hasn't brought us any strategic benefit commiserate with the geo-political cost of our support for it. Anything Israel provided (aside from friendship) could just as easily have been provided by Saudi Arabia or the Gulf states, at much less costs.
    Wouldn't it be in Israels best interest to gain popularity with one of the richest, and scientifically(nuclear, medically)advanced countries in the world? Surely, Iran couldn't drop a nuke on Israel,... Not with the US banging on their back door!

    The US invasion into SA, as well as the one in Iraq were the opportunities Israel needed in order to gain US support, in the efforts to surround Iran...

    Israel has America by the balls, and you know it!
    ... They say that knowledge is free, and to truly acquire wisdom always comes with a price... Well then,... That will be $10, please!

  6. #156
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prototype View Post
    Wouldn't it be in Israels best interest to gain popularity with one of the richest, and scientifically(nuclear, medically)advanced countries in the world? Surely, Iran couldn't drop a nuke on Israel,... Not with the US banging on their back door!
    And this benefits us strategically how?

    As for the rest, your accusations of an American invasion into Saudi Arabia are as patently absurd as accusations that Allied involvement in WWII was for the Jews (and such would have been morally justified, to say the least, but it was never a consideration). I'm bored now.

  7. #157
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    1. Opposition to Western and Soviet interventionism, combined with the end of Bretton Woods.

    2. Defections occurred due to greater instability in the region, and the US getting to Saudi Arabia re: petrodollars (already having the Shah in its back pocket). SA is the linchpin in OPEC, so we offer them stability while making sure the rest of the region is a quagmire without means of colluding with one another.
    1.) Intervention on behalf of Israel...and the Soviets (who were opportunistically supporting Israel's military enemies) were not subject to the embargo.

    2.) You give us far too much credit...the Middle East is a quagmire all on its own.

  8. #158
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    1.) Intervention on behalf of Israel...and the Soviets (who were opportunistically supporting Israel's military enemies) were not subject to the embargo.

    2.) You give us far too much credit...the Middle East is a quagmire all on its own.
    1) AIPAC's relationship with the US didn't get into full swing until the mid-1970s, after the embargo of '73 happened. Support of Israel was token at best up to this point. The Soviets weren't subject to the embargo because they were entirely self-sufficient when it came to oil (the US having hit its Hubbert peak in 1972).

    2) Nah, that's just how the Cold War worked, amigo. It's sorta like Dune - as soon as one organization controlled all the oil, all of a sudden they were equally powerful to the other two major oil producers of the world (the US and USSR), sans nukes. The bipolar world did not tolerate this sort of deviation from the accepted paradigm.

  9. #159
    THREADKILLER Prototype's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    And this benefits us strategically how?

    As for the rest, your accusations of an American invasion into Saudi Arabia are as patently absurd as accusations that Allied involvement in WWII was for the Jews (and such would have been morally justified, to say the least, but it was never a consideration). I'm bored now.
    Israel wants their "promised land" back. Iran, amongst others, isn't going allow that. The US wants to control the mining, and the use of uranium in S. Western Asia to prevent Iran from nuking Israel. This would likely get Israel out of debt with the US, and the US would be praised for preventing Armageddon.(Christian idealism?) ... Fair trade!

    Considering that Israel is the 6th most wealthy(military wise)nation in the world, and with Iraq(#4)and SA(#3)being oppressed by the US makes it so much easier for Israel to expand... I wouldn't be surprised if Oman was next on the list...
    ... They say that knowledge is free, and to truly acquire wisdom always comes with a price... Well then,... That will be $10, please!

  10. #160
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prototype View Post
    Israel wants their "promised land" back. Iran, amongst others, isn't going allow that. The US wants to control the mining, and the use of uranium in S. Western Asia to prevent Iran from nuking Israel. This would likely get Israel out of debt with the US, and the US would be praised for preventing Armageddon.(Christian idealism?) ... Fair trade!

    Considering that Israel is the 6th most wealthy(military wise)nation in the world, and with Iraq(#4)and SA(#3)being oppressed by the US makes it so much easier for Israel to expand... I wouldn't be surprised if Oman was next on the list...
    No, no, no.

    They NEED all the Jews to go back to live Israel to start Armageddon, and none of them will do it if it's a nuked-up wasteland.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

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