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  1. #141
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    As for oil and land (I assume you mean military bases) interests in the Middle East, that was already taken care of by Lawrence of Arabia during WWI; the creation of the state of Israel only hindered such designs by providing a basis for Soviet inroads and a focal point for united regional action.
    Sorry to quibble: Sykes–Picot Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  2. #142
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    As for oil and land (I assume you mean military bases) interests in the Middle East, that was already taken care of by Lawrence of Arabia during WWI; the creation of the state of Israel only hindered such designs by providing a basis for Soviet inroads and a focal point for united regional action.
    Surely the Zionists presented an opporutnity for a much reliable ally of the West in the Middle East than the Arab States could ever have been. Concretely, what Arab state could ever have had the same level of popular support for the US from its population, allowing it to play a role as unswerving US watchdog in the region, that Israel has?

    We only have to look at the fact that the US favours Israel with a level of freedom, privelige and miltiary might that it won't allow any other puppet regime in the world...why do you think this is?

    In Asia, Latin America and Africa the US also faced Soviet inroads and revoltuionary threats without Israel, but didn't enjoy the level of loyalty and mutual trust with any regime that it does with Israel. Doesn't this fly in the face of your claim?
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  3. #143
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    It can also be used to refer to general paranoia and villification of communists. And are you saying that it's only Mcarthyism if there's "insufficient evidence", i.e. witch-hunting real commies is fair game?

    I'm glad we're seeing the true colours of this "lover of democracy"!
    "True colors" are indeed quite revealing, particularly when proponents of most forms of (philosophically and politically balkanized) communism start to debate particulars.

    And if by "witch-hunting" and "villification" of communist you mean denouncing their odious ideology and goals, the same as one would do with a white supremacist attempting to advance their ideology, then yes.

  4. #144
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bananatrombones View Post
    I was referring to the division of the Middle East into small, mutually antagonistic states dependent on mutually beneficial alliances with Western states.

  5. #145
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    In Asia, Latin America and Africa the US also faced Soviet inroads and revoltuionary threats without Israel, but didn't enjoy the level of loyalty and mutual trust with any regime that it does with Israel. Doesn't this fly in the face of your claim?
    No; Israel hasn't brought us any strategic benefit commiserate with the geo-political cost of our support for it. Anything Israel provided (aside from friendship) could just as easily have been provided by Saudi Arabia or the Gulf states, at much less costs.

  6. #146
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    I was referring to the division of the Middle East into small, mutually antagonistic states dependent on mutually beneficial alliances with Western states.
    Or watching too many David Lean movies.

  7. #147
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    "True colors" are indeed quite revealing, particularly when proponents of most forms of (philosophically and politically balkanized) communism start to debate particulars.

    And if by "witch-hunting" and "villification" of communist you mean denouncing their odious ideology and goals, the same as one would do with a white supremacist attempting to advance their ideology, then yes.
    Well I really can't be bothered to reply to this level of crap. Have a nice life and thanks for making me laugh out loud with the above comment.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  8. #148
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    Well I really can't be bothered to reply to this level of crap.
    Who said leopards don't change their spots?



    Congratulations on your use of rhetoric. A pleasure to watch.

  9. #149
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    No; Israel hasn't brought us any strategic benefit commiserate with the geo-political cost of our support for it. Anything Israel provided (aside from friendship) could just as easily have been provided by Saudi Arabia or the Gulf states, at much less costs.
    The only reason the United States supports Israel so much is because rich business interests believe they're the key to The Rapture/Armageddon/Etc. It really has nothing to do with WWIII and extermination of the Muslims.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  10. #150
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    No; Israel hasn't brought us any strategic benefit commiserate with the geo-political cost of our support for it. Anything Israel provided (aside from friendship) could just as easily have been provided by Saudi Arabia or the Gulf states, at much less costs.
    Sure it has. It's kept the Middle East unstable. An unstable Middle East means no OPEC oil embargo. Preventing the oil crisis from ever happening again has been the primary aim of our policy over there since the mid 1970s.

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