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  1. #121
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    How was his comment in any way anti-semitic?
    There is a point, there.

    Israel is a nation in its own right. It's not "Jews" personified, no matter who wants to spin it that way.

    5 million Jews live in Israel, 5 million live in America, the rest in other sundry nations. However, as Jews are only a fraction of a percent in America, they are 75% of Israel's population.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  2. #122
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Yes.

    But what you have forgotten to mention is that it's also the Talibans themselves that reintroduced opium cultivation because they needed immediate cash to finance their war.

    And it's them who introduced opium culture first from Pakistan in 1989, at least to an industrial scale.


    But nowadays, 93% of the world heroin is manufactured in Afghanistan (88% of it in areas controlled by the Talibans and their allies). And 60% of this production goes through Iran and later to Europe (Ahmadinejad's regime is always glad to contribute to the Western world's decadence), and the rest through the Pakistani tribal zone.
    It was more like the Mujahideen in general with the aid of the CIA which upped the opium production in Afghanistan during the Cold War.

    In mid 2000, with relatively moderate crop in effect, the Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar declared that growing poppies was unIslamic. This resulting in one of the world's most successful anti-drug campaigns. As a result of this ban, opium poppy cultivation was reduced by over 90%.

    So then the U.S. bombed them for allegedly allowing Osama to camp in their caves and destroyed what was the prior economy and it has since grown to the country prime cash crop and main source of heroin in the world. Corrupt officials are bribed and U.S. forces turn a blind eye to those "friendly" warlords who are controlling the drug trade.

    Talk about empire building. Now Afghanistan is largest illegal opium producer with many more addicts than under either USSR or the Taliban. "Also, more land is now used for opium in Afghanistan, than for coca cultivation in Latin America. In 2007, 93% of the opiates on the world market originated in Afghanistan. This amounts to an export value of about $64 billion, with a quarter being earned by opium farmers and the rest going to district officials, insurgents, warlords and drug traffickers." This was not just a momentary crop limitation to raise prices the U.S. invasion essentially created a narco surge that will haunt families in the U.S. and Western world (as well as Afghanistan and Persia) for generations.

    We didn't bring just bring them democracy, we didn't just bring them a monkey on their back, we brought the whole world a petting zoo monkeys for their back. And the folks who complain about the narcotics over there too loudly are call Taliban or terrorists and bad things happen to them and their families such as mass executions. (Which the OP news story sound like a lot of the 1980s cocaine drug lord hits, than normal war atrocities)

    Meanwhile westerners die from AIDS and ODs and other health and social diseases caused by the narcotics.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  3. #123
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    It was more the Mujahideen in general with the aid of the CIA which upped the opium production in Afghanistan during the Cold War. In mid 2000, Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar declared that growing poppies was unIslamic, resulting in one of the world's most successful anti-drug campaigns. As a result of this ban, opium poppy cultivation was reduced by over 90%.
    I did not say I didn't agree, since I said Yes.

    But no, the Talibans were indeed the first to develop poppy farming on such an extensive scale, far more than anything that was done before them. They even imported special varieties from Pakistan.

    So the U.S. bombed them and destroyed what was the prior economy and it has since grown to the prime source of heroin in the world. Corrupt officials are bribed and U.S. forces turn a blind eye to those "friendly" warlords who are controlling the drug trade.
    Again, that's not totally true, since the huge majority of the current poppy production is made only in Taliban held territories (and that's the third of the country), and NOT under local warlords supervision.
    And NO, this opium doesn't circulate in the country thanks to bribes. Taliban producers use the borders they still control, either with Pakistan or Iran.

    So there, you're making false accusations.

    Talk about empire building. Now Afghanistan is largest illegal opium producer with many more addicts under either USSR or the Taliban. "Also, more land is now used for opium in Afghanistan, than for coca cultivation in Latin America.
    Untrue. Coca culture is everywhere and legal within the Andes. It's only processing them into Cocaine that is illegal.


    We didn't bring just bring them democracy, we didn't just bring them a monkey on their back, we brought the whole world a petting zoo monkeys for their back. And the folks who complain about the narcotics over their too loudly are call Taliban or terrorists and bad things happen to them and their families such as mass executions.
    The rest of your message is clearly messing up many factors, and too emotional.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  4. #124
    THREADKILLER Prototype's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Frankly: Are you just playing us a bad joke, or are you deliberately trying to flirt with anti-Semitism?
    Anti-war... What's with the loaded questions?

    My grandfather was one of the many Dutch police officers that were forced to comply with Nazi commands, it was that, or face prison, or maybe even worse, like being sent to the same camps he was train loading Jewish passengers for...
    ... They say that knowledge is free, and to truly acquire wisdom always comes with a price... Well then,... That will be $10, please!

  5. #125
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prototype View Post

    My grandfather was one of the many Dutch police officers that were forced to comply with Nazi commands, it was that, or face prison, or maybe even worse, like being sent to the same camps he was train loading Jewish passengers for...
    That's very unlikely.

    Death camps were solely made for Jews, and Jews only (with a few Gypsies in the way).
    Concentration camps, however, had a far higher survival rate (85% in Dachau, for instance), than Death camps (3% in Auschwitz).

    They are not at all the same thing.

    ---

    But we're going far away from the original subject.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  6. #126
    THREADKILLER Prototype's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    ... we're going far away from the subject.
    Are we now?... I thought we were talking about human morals and the illusory justification for war.

    Once again, what's with the loaded questions?...
    ... They say that knowledge is free, and to truly acquire wisdom always comes with a price... Well then,... That will be $10, please!

  7. #127
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    Really? Do you really think life has got better for women in Afghanistan since the occupation, or that as a result of this occupation/dictatorship it can do?
    Yes, particularly since I rely on either scientific polling (which you conveniently choose to believe are made up) or objective measures of well-being (such as female school attendance), rather than on anecdotal evidence from a heavily biased source.

  8. #128
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prototype View Post
    Once again, what's with the loaded questions?...
    What's with the loaded statements?

  9. #129
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Yes, particularly since I rely on either scientific polling (which you conveniently choose to believe are made up) or objective measures of well-being (such as female school attendance), rather than on anecdotal evidence from a heavily biased source.
    Sorry, but why is an Afghan female MP any more biased than a western polling company? Surely if your claims are true than no-one would stand to lose more from an end to the occupation than a female MP:s

    And how exactly do you expect people to answer a poll freely under a foreign occupation and a dictatorship which tortures and kills opponents? And again, if the government is so popular, why did they have to rig an election?

    But in any case you can keep believing that some kind of alliance between NATO, the Northern Alliance and the Karzai dictatorship is going to bring progress to Afghan women if you like; just so long as you realize that no-one outside the US and more backward sectors of the UK believes that.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

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  10. #130
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    Sorry, but why is an Afghan female MP any more biased than a western polling company?

    And how exactly do you expect people to answer a poll freely under a foreign occupation and a dictatorship which tortures and kills opponents?

    And again, if the government is so popular, why did they have to rig an election?

    But in any case you can keep believing that some kind of alliance between NATO, the Northern Alliance and the Karzai dictatorship is going to bring progress to Afghan women if you like; just so long as you realize that no-one outside the US and more backward sectors of the UK believes that.
    1.) You really can't see the absurdity of that question, particularly in light of that female MP's personal history? In any event, the matter of scientific polling versus anecdotal evidence (as well as objective indicators of well-being versus unsupported ideological assumptions) was by far the most salient point.

    2.) The fact that this was an independent poll undertaken by professionals with experience in such environments (not that I agree with your simplistic and misleading descriptors).

    3.) First of all, I never claimed the government was particularly popular, just far more popular than the Taliban. Second, depressed turn-out in Karzai's strongholds (due to Taliban threats and violence) was a strong handicap; the government's election fraud was probably closer to what his level of national support actually was relative to his opponents (not a justification, merely an observation).

    4.) Relative to the Taliban, it most certainly will (and in several important respects already has)-not that it particularly matters in terms of why we are there. And, as a counter-revolutionary tool of the Amerikan Empire, I don't have to care what the oppressed masses of the world allegedly believe regarding this particular issue.

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