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  1. #51
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    No.

    The climate of the "little ice age" was far harsher than this winter, you have no idea how much.

    As I already said, is that was the case, you would not have extreme temperatures like -6C in Paris, but temperatures like -20C or even below.
    If the current climate isn't "normal" and the little ice age wasn't "normal", what is "normal"?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #52
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    If the current climate isn't "normal" and the little ice age wasn't "normal", what is "normal"?


    Please note that even the harsh winters of 1985-86 -which were colder than this one- were considerably "warmer" than those occuring decades before.

    Once again, you have to take into account the global trend, the big picture, and not a single isolated event. Don't be so short-sighted!
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  3. #53
    ..... Intricate Mystic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I find string theory fascinating. I consider evolution to be entirely plausible (read: I'm not a creationist). The future of genetics is exciting (I'm all for things like stem cell research). Yet, despite my enthusiast support, I would resist broad public policy being formed based on our current knowledge in any of those sciences. There's too much that we don't know, and most scientists would freely admit this.

    Why is climate science different? I agree with Katsuni, that we really don't have any idea what's going on. We see patterns and we rush to explain them without any real understanding. Yet we're expected to spend billions, even trillions of dollars on policies based on a science that we understand no more than we understand the mechanisms of evolution (possibly even less).
    I agree. Scientists keep adjusting their climate models based on new findings/theories. Paleoclimatology models don't match our current climate, either. If they did, the earth should be at least 5 degrees warmer than it is now, given the current levels of CO2 in the atmosphere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Aside of the joke, it's interesting to notice that HERE, on this forum, the persons "who question The Consensus the most" also are the persons with the less confirmed scientific skills.
    I hope you aren't including me in that statement. I'm not a climatologist, but I do have a graduate degree in the sciences.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Please note that even the harsh winters of 1985-86 -which were colder than this one- were considerably "warmer" than those occurring decades before.

    Once again, you have to take into account the global trend, the big picture, and not a single isolated event. Don't be so short-sighted!
    This still doesn't answer my question. What is normal? Is what is happening with the climate right now abnormal?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #55
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intricate Mystic View Post
    I agree. Scientists keep adjusting their climate models based on new findings/theories. Paleoclimatology models don't match our current climate, either. If they did, the earth should be at least 5 degrees warmer than it is now, given the current levels of CO2 in the atmosphere.
    Any paper to support that theory?



    I hope you aren't including me in that statement. I'm not a climatologist, but I do have a graduate degree in the sciences.
    I do not know if your degree in science is genuine or not, but what you just said about the "5 degrees warmer" just make me think Science is not exactly your cup of tea.

    Besides, the paper you quoted was crap, and not peer related: Another clue.

    Sorry.

    ---

    As the French saying "Ce qu'il y a de pire avec les cons, c'est qu'ils osent tout". They have no shame, even if they say in public the most stupidest and unproved thing ever. They are not afraid to show how vast their ignorance is, they dare everything.
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  6. #56
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Laterlaus has a good point: what is "normal"? I was under the impression that, despite what one might think, the environment was dynamic.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post


    Please note that even the harsh winters of 1985-86 -which were colder than this one- were considerably "warmer" than those occuring decades before.

    Once again, you have to take into account the global trend, the big picture, and not a single isolated event. Don't be so short-sighted!
    I'm not sure about that? i.e. 1985 to 86 was warmer where I am vs. 1977.

    This is the longest cold spell since then.

    North China is having the coldest weather since the 1950's.

    Now looking at the graph temperature has increased in the tratosphere at the same rate as presented in this chart. According to the "climate experts" the tratosphere should be about 1.5 times warmer than that as to "increase."

  8. #58
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Laterlaus has a good point: what is "normal"? I was under the impression that, despite what one might think, the environment was dynamic.
    It is.

    But the current rise of temperature is occuring at a rate never, never ever recorded in the past. And we have multiple evidences of that (1).

    Hence the term: anomality.

    ---

    (1) For instance, as a botanist, I could say that plant species and trees never migrated so quickly to the north. Incidentally, it causes them a lot of issues in the process (parasites, insects, isolation). The permafrost is thawing like never before -and it can be measured too over the past millenias-... and so on and so on...
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Laterlaus has a good point: what is "normal"? I was under the impression that, despite what one might think, the environment was dynamic.
    The normal temperature range for earth was initially between 700-1000 degrees C.

    Granted in that perspective the biggest problem is "global cooling", it might be nice if it did warm up a bit.

  10. #60
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sLiPpY View Post
    The normal temperature range for earth was initially between 700-1000 degrees C.

    Granted in that perspective the biggest problem is "global cooling", it might be nice if it did warm up a bit.
    You're just answering this to provoke an argument, aren't you? :rolli:

    You troll.
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