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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    I mostly just wanted to sneak in so I could drop in this picture:

    07/01/2010 (07th jan 2010, not sure why americans put the month first, smallest to largest peoples!), picture of Britain covered with snow =3

    Oddly enough though, that's evidence for global WARMING, rather than COOLING.

    Problem there, is that as ice melts off the north pole, it screws with the gulf stream's efficiency of transferring heat to Europe, which leaves Europe getting harsh, crappy winters, which matches that theory.

    Unfortunately we know so little about the climate that I honestly don't think we know WTH's going on XD

    Britain looks like a little Greenland, now doesn't it.

    Which reminds me it's kind of funny to watch "scientist" aka grant money suckers...put up a picture of Greenland and say omg! Look! Proof!

    Sure the ice is receeding, just like it did when the Vikings were able to settle there. As if that's never happened before.

    What they don't say is how is it that the interior actually received an extra 6 cm of snow per year? Between 1997 and 2002?

    Or why is it that temperature avg hasn't increased at all since 1998? 2008 was also a cold year.

    And the real kicker is how come the troposhere's temperature hasn't increased to a range that would make accepted "Climate Change" models workable?

    If releasing carbon is such a catastrophe, perhaps all the Global Warming mantra folks should do themselves a favor and stop exhaling.

    I think it was 1815 a volcano erupted and dropped the earths temperature a full five degrees and ruined crops. It's often called the "year without a summer". That little eruption cooled the surface temperature of the entire earth for a full four years.

    As I recall setting off a couple of nukes didn't even achieve that.

  2. #32
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sLiPpY View Post
    I think it was 1815 a volcano erupted and dropped the earths temperature a full five degrees and ruined crops. It's often called the "year without a summer". That little eruption cooled the surface temperature of the entire earth for a full four years.

    As I recall setting off a couple of nukes didn't even achieve that.
    Hei, without that volcano, we wouldn't have frankenstein!

    Remember shelly was invited to Lord Byron's place and the weather was such crap, that everyone had to stay indoors. Leave a few writers indoors with nothing to do, and guess whot they do? They write! Go figure!

    1816 had a good amount of rather classic literature written in it, even if much of it wasn't published until later, most likely due to that volcano ^^



    That being said, the output of a single volcanic eruption produces many times over the CO2 that humans have over the entire course of human history.

    There's been more than enough studies to show that CO2 isn't the cause of warming at all, but rather an aftereffect which shows up AFTER the warming has already occurred.

    Doesn't mean 'global warming' is total falsehood, it just means our understanding of climate change as a whole is nowheres near as great as we'd like to pretend it is.



    I agree with Lateralus... or... wait he agreed with me... so am I agreeing with myself? That's probably for the better honestly. I hate disagreeing with myself. Because then it always turns into a fight. And I'm pretty sure I can take myself if I had to. Worst part is though, I know where I live.

    Aaaaanyways XD

    Policy based on lack of information is not really the best idea... the whole carbon credits thing is dumb, but the idea of renewable resources should be looked into anyway.

    Tidal farms and wind farms are excellent sources of energy, and in some areas can be used with minimal side effects. Solar energy is an excellent source of power, even though there's only been a small handful of locations which actually use it effectively (the most recent design I've seen literally can't use its' full power output because it literally would MELT if it tried to harness its' full capacity... I can think of a few improvements upon that design due to such XD but yeah anyways ), and it really should have more use placed in it honestly.

    I can see a day when we produce so much genetically grown 'superfoods' that the excess farmland gets turned into solar power arrays =3

    But we'll see I suppose. People are stupid and don't use common sense all that well. And go against stuff just because of ignorance alone. Stupid organic food. Why do yeu people insist on supporting such a bad idea?

  3. #33
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Instead, we have people like Blackmail who demean anyone who questions The Consensus.
    I'm wondering it too!

    Perhaps it is so because Blackmail has already worked on that issue during past yes -scientifically speaking-, and that you obviously haven't?

    Just a wild guess...

    ---

    Aside of the joke, it's interesting to notice that HERE, on this forum, the persons "who question The Consensus the most" also are the persons with the less confirmed scientific skills.

    And furthermore, they seem to analyze the issue strictly through a politicized/religious point of view.

    Interesting correlation, isn't it?
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  4. #34
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    But we'll see I suppose. People are stupid and don't use common sense all that well. And go against stuff just because of ignorance alone.
    Absolutely.

    I remember for instance when you displayed two-three four completely false ideas you thought that could be right. Apparently, you didn't learn the lesson.

    It's because you rely too much on quick Ne, and not enough on knowledge. You have this pathology we all Ne-users have: when we do not know, we are tempted invent it, or think our intuition can make the difference or fill the blanks. We often go too fast: sometimes with outstanding new ideas, and sometimes with disastrous results.

    Because unfortunately, our trick doesn't work everytime. Scientific reality is sometimes completely counter-intuitive or goes against so-called "common sense" when you carefully analyze it.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  5. #35
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I'm pretty convinced you are all making a willful effort to not understand the arguments for the existence of global warming. Since, for just an example, all of the obvious recorded submerging islands and coastlines, and disapearing icecapes, are too simple and incontravertible for you to lack the comprehension to understand them. It is not complex voodoo science to show this. All you need is a series of pictures of one spot, and then compile them, and look for a trend. The people who actually live in these places can tell you from experience. To discount this, your ignorance must be willful.

    You shouldn't even be here to ask about global warming. There is so much more evidence burrying the internet everday, than anyone can give here. You'd have to avoid it to miss it.

    You are acting like people who favor intelligent design, or should I say, cdesign proponentsists.

    EDIT: Oh, and you're all textbook conspiracy theorists, too.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #36
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I'm pretty convinced you are all making a willful effort to not understand the arguments for the existence of global warming. Since, for just an example, all of the obvious recorded submerging islands and coastlines, and disapearing icecapes, are too simple and incontravertible for you to lack the comprehension to understand them. It is not complex voodoo science to show this. All you need is a series of pictures of one spot, and then compile them, and look for a trend. The people who actually live in these places can tell you from experience. To discount this, your ignorance must be willful.

    You shouldn't even be here to ask about global warming. There is so much more evidence burrying the internet everday, than anyone can give here. You'd have to avoid it to miss it.

    You are acting like people who favor intelligent design, or should I say, cdesign proponentsists.

    EDIT: Oh, and you're all textbook conspiracy theorists, too.
    I don't think anybody really disagrees with the existence of a general warming trend in the last 100 years or so. Which is all your above examples indicate: that the world is getting warmer. It doesn't say how. It's not like CO2 comes along, lights an island on fire, and leaves a message that says "CO2 was here lol."

    As far as I know, some of the "skeptics" main points of contention are:

    1. The science has become too politicized to be trusted.

    2. Anthropogenic CO2 is arbitrarily crowned as the driving force of change while other mechanisms [habitat destruction, solar cycle, cloud cover, etc] are minimized or ignored.

    3. Predictions of global catastrophe are unwarranted, irresponsible, and do more harm than good.



  7. #37
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I'm pretty convinced you are all making a willful effort to not understand the arguments for the existence of global warming. Since, for just an example, all of the obvious recorded submerging islands and coastlines, and disapearing icecapes, are too simple and incontravertible for you to lack the comprehension to understand them. It is not complex voodoo science to show this. All you need is a series of pictures of one spot, and then compile them, and look for a trend. The people who actually live in these places can tell you from experience. To discount this, your ignorance must be willful.

    You shouldn't even be here to ask about global warming. There is so much more evidence burrying the internet everday, than anyone can give here. You'd have to avoid it to miss it.

    You are acting like people who favor intelligent design, or should I say, cdesign proponentsists.

    EDIT: Oh, and you're all textbook conspiracy theorists, too.
    If you're referring to me, you must not actually read my posts. My only point of contention is the obsession with carbon. I've never said that global warming or climate change does not exist. I've never even said that whatever climate change we may be is experiencing is not anthropogenic in origin. I've only said that I don't think carbon is the culprit.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #38
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    I'm wondering it too!

    Perhaps it is so because Blackmail has already worked on that issue during past yes -scientifically speaking-, and that you obviously haven't?

    Just a wild guess...
    That's true, I'm just a lowly electrical engineer. Hell, engineers hardly even use science anymore.

    Aside of the joke, it's interesting to notice that HERE, on this forum, the persons "who question The Consensus the most" also are the persons with the less confirmed scientic skills.

    And furthermore, they seem to analyze the issue strictly through a politicized/religious point of view.

    Interesting correlation, isn't it?
    That is certainly the case with some people. I get really annoyed by some right-wing people (on and off this forum) when they discuss this issue. They care more about ideology than science, and they rarely know what the hell they're talking about. They're usually more like Sarah Palin, regurgitating talking points.

    But you're certainly intelligent enough to know that not all dissent has such ignorant origins.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #39
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    I don't think anybody really disagrees with the existence of a general warming trend in the last 100 years or so. Which is all your above examples indicate: that the world is getting warmer. It doesn't say how. It's not like CO2 comes along, lights an island on fire, and leaves a message that says "CO2 was here lol."
    The whole point about a cooling trend seems to imply a disbelief in global warming altogether. And I have talked to or heard from plenty of people that are skeptical of global warming entirely. Hell, how many people gave that answer in my poll a while back? 8 people, 10% or so percept of the votes on that thread. So there are people here who clearly think that.

    A larger number said it was happening by neither threatening nor man-made, which is pretty much just as bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    As far as I know, some of the "skeptics" main points of contention are:

    1. The science has become too politicized to be trusted.
    What practical use does one put to this conclusion? If you do not trust science, then what will you trust on this subject? A preacher? Will you read tea leaves? Or do we give our trust to one or two self-proclaimed, devoid of credentials, making estimations about the environment out of their closet?

    A politics and science have been together before. Science urges policy, because it's used to make important discoveries about our world that we need to act on. Policy urges science, because policies often take extraordinary means to be accomplished. If this were grounds to discard science, we should have done it a long time ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    2. Anthropogenic CO2 is arbitrarily crowned as the driving force of change while other mechanisms [habitat destruction, solar cycle, cloud cover, etc] are minimized or ignored.
    This is the closest thing to a real argument. I certainly don't mind people paying attention to other environmental problems to be dealt with (though I seriously doubt most of these skeptics actually give a crap about those either). Never the less, the measures used by the majority of the most trustworthy people available in the world apparently show unusually high amounts of CO2, a crap load of it coming from human industry, and plenty of models to show how this heating process works. Again, the information is out there, in detail, in droves. The problem with going against this back to the previous point. If you can't trust those scientists and those models, who are you trusting? What could possibly convince you otherwise?

    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    3. Predictions of global catastrophe are unwarranted, irresponsible, and do more harm than good.
    Following this rule of thumb to its logical conlusion, we can guarantee that the first time a serious chance of global catostrophe comes around, it will hit us as hard as it possibly can, since we apparently aren't supposed to predict and account for it. That's a pretty devil-may-care approach to civilization.

    Clearly, if such a threat actually comes about, it would do more harm to not predict it.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  10. #40
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    The whole point about a cooling trend seems to imply a disbelief in global warming altogether. And I have talked to or heard from plenty of people that are skeptical of global warming entirely. Hell, how many people gave that answer in my poll a while back? 8 people, 10% or so percept of the votes on that thread. So there are people here who clearly think that.
    This is simply not true, especially if the cooling is caused by a weakening of the Gulf Stream.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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