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View Poll Results: Keirseyan type and equality preference; which kind of equality do you favor?

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  • NT and favor equal opportunity

    12 38.71%
  • NF and favor equal opportunity

    9 29.03%
  • SP and favor equal opportunity

    4 12.90%
  • SJ and favor equal opportunity

    3 9.68%
  • NT and favor equality of outcome

    2 6.45%
  • NF and favor equality of outcome

    0 0%
  • SP and favor equality of outcome

    1 3.23%
  • SJ and favor equality of outcome

    0 0%
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  1. #1
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Default Equal opportunity, or equal outcome?

    Which do you favor?
    Equal opportunity is a descriptive term for an approach intended to provide a certain social environment in which people are not excluded from the activities of society, such as education, employment, or health care, on the basis of immutable traits. Equal opportunity practices include measures taken by organizations to ensure fairness in the employment process.*
    Equality of outcome is a form of egalitarianism which seeks to reduce or eliminate differences in material condition between individuals or households in a society. This usually means equalizing income and/or total wealth to some degree.*
    In theory, equality of outcome can be distinguished from equal opportunity. Outcomes can usually be measured with a great degree of precision, opportunities cannot. That is why many proponents of equal opportunity use measures of equality of outcome to judge success.*
    *Wikipedia.

  2. #2
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    I always view this question as an "And" situation that needs to be taken in context.

    For example, I believe that everyone should be given the chance at a "fair" life - equal opportunity. However, I also believe that wealth disparity is a big long term problem - equal outcome.

    To me, equal opportunity is about giving a fair chance to everyone... a chance to prove their ability and serve others. Equal outcome is about social dynamics being preserved safely so as not to upset the balance of power.

  3. #3
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    I vote for Greater Opportunity and Outcome for Me...oh wait, why is that not one of the options?

    (Due to my present situation, I voted for Equal Opportunity. These days, it's white males who are discriminated against -- ultimate reversal role.)

  4. #4
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Obviously, I'd really prefer both.

    If I had to somehow cut one out, I guess I'd prefer equal outcome.
    I'm feeling awfully lonely here.

    Of course, due to the way the question is phrased, I'm thinking of this as though I could only work toward one of the two options.
    Forced to pick, I'd rather have a world focused completely on equal outcome than equal opportunity.
    If it's opportunity and no outcome, your society winds up with a GINI of 60.
    No good!
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  5. #5
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    I think that I prefer equality of opportunity, because equality of outcome eliminates rewards for people who work harder, and makes things better for people who don't work as hard. It sounds like Communism or Socialism. Everyone should have the same opportunities, but they shouldn't get something for nothing just because there needs to be a balance. How wisely they use the opportunities they are presented with should ideally determine their fate.

  6. #6
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Without one there can't be the other. How can opportunities be equal when some people are born loaded with cash (which equals access to the best education, healthcare, horizon-broadening experiences etc) and friends in high places, while others are born poor, with no access to education and/or healthcare and at the mercy of faceless bureaucrats, often forced into crime and skipping school just to put food in their bellies?

    And before a kid gets anywhere near school, even with all the equal opportunities in the outside world, if they have parents who put them down, discourage them and neglect them, they're gonna find it even harder still to gain a scholarship to Harvard, even if they have an IQ of 180.

    There could be dozens of Da Vinci's out there who will never know what they're capable of because they'll never get a chance to put brush to canvas. Which reminds me of a line in a book I once read, where a medieval minstrel who's famous for being the best musician in the land and is sought after by kings and princes and popes, says to his freind, "What makes me really sad is that there are hundreds of musicians just as good and better than me, but they'll never know it and we'll never hear their songs, because they'll spend their lives pushing ploughs and never get to touch a flute."
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  7. #7
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Without one there can't be the other. How can opportunities be equal when some people are born loaded with cash (which equals access to the best education, healthcare, horizon-broadening experiences etc) and friends in high places, while others are born poor, with no access to education and/or healthcare and at the mercy of faceless bureaucrats, often forced into crime and skipping school just to put food in their bellies?

    And before a kid gets anywhere near school, even with all the equal opportunities in the outside world, if they have parents who put them down, discourage them and neglect them, they're gonna find it even harder still to gain a scholarship to Harvard, even if they have an IQ of 180.

    There could be dozens of Da Vinci's out there who will never know what they're capable of because they'll never get a chance to put brush to canvas. Which reminds me of a line in a book I once read, where a medieval minstrel who's famous for being the best musician in the land and is sought after by kings and princes and popes, says to his freind, "What makes me really sad is that there are hundreds of musicians just as good and better than me, but they'll never know it and we'll never hear their songs, because they'll spend their lives pushing ploughs and never get to touch a flute."
    You'd think you were from the US! I think that I'll have to agree with your opinion completely!

    Quit writing about my life!!! I don't have an IQ of quite 180 but I test well and such and got accepted into some really good schools- but at $26,000 for tuition for a semester and no scholarship offer, I'm here at a state university! Also, being too old to be covered by my mom's health insurance I'm one of the millions of uninsured Americans that get talked about

    I've been arguing that you can't have equal opportunity without more equality as far as money goes every since I started reading up on the world in 8th grade!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  8. #8
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Ideally, equal opportunity, but if you are getting grossly different outcomes between different groups, then I think we are fooling ourselves about actually having equal opportunity.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  9. #9
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  10. #10
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    I dont think perfectly equal outcome would be a good thing, because some jobs require longer education(which means loss of income from the years of extra studying), require more work hours, more responsibility, are harder work overall etc. But i think extreme differences are bad(sadly those right wing fuckers are trying to ruin my country with this bullshit).

    Equal opportunity is also quite much impossible, since parents education level effects this among with other things. But i think that its good that in my country education is free, so basically anyone who has the mental means to learn can get into university. Unlike in countries like US where opportunity in education(and thus in pretty much everything else) is dependant on the family income(unless you get lucky with a stipend).
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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