User Tag List

123 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 28

  1. #1
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    8
    Posts
    13,878

    Default Pregnant soldiers in warzones?

    Pregnant soldiers in war zone won't be punished - Yahoo! News

    The latest on the topic, it also briefly includes the decree that came out prior to it.

    Gen. Raymond Odierno has drafted a broad new policy for the U.S. forces in Iraq that will take effect Jan. 1, and that order will not include a pregnancy provision that one of his subordinate commanders enacted last month, according to the U.S. military command in Iraq.

    Odierno's order comes about a week after the pregnancy policy issued by Maj. Gen. Anthony Cucolo triggered a storm of criticism. Cucolo had issued a policy that would permit the punishment of soldiers who become pregnant and their sexual partners.
    What struck this in my head is here..

    And he said the policy was intended to emphasize the problems created when pregnant soldiers go home and leave behind a weaker unit.
    Forgive me if this sounds bitter, but my experience overseas was that I had no choice but to force my head to hold high against a storm of males telling me that I was incapable of anything aside administrative duties. It seems to me the military has always thought females the weaker sex, and their actions time and time again prove it.

    We're frequently blamed for "distracting" soldiers from their duties, and we're always being forced to hold ourselves to "higher standards" than humanity itself to compensate for human interactions and, for God's sake, what comes natural to human beings in general.

    I believe that becoming pregnant might be a cowardly thing to do while overseas, and definitely takes away from the mission.. But. When you're condemned for even TALKING to the opposite sex too much, even if you maintain a professional relationship, how's a couple suppose to get the necessary birth control to prevent it?

    Does this go back to the theory of whether parents allow their children to have contraceptives? Is it better to have them available, even if you don't approve? Would soldiers get in trouble for needing them, and acknowledging that they need them?

    I'm still mulling the topic over in my mind. But I've never thought it right for humans being punished for doing what's human. The military has a strong way of disrespecting, and down right hating, females for everything they try to do, and then when topics like this come up, we're frequently to blame.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

    Cimarron: maybe Prpl will be your girl-bud
    prplchknz: i don't like it

    In Search Of... ... Kiwi Sketch Art ... Dream Journal ... Kyuuei's Cook book ... Kyu's Tiny House Blog ... Minimalist Challenge ... Kyu's Savings Challenge

  2. #2
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    4,226

    Default

    are you theoretically not to engage in sex while on active duty? I guess I assumed that this was okay and birth control available.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Robert165's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    257

    Default

    I have 2 (opposite) reactions:

    1- i agree with everything you say
    2- since you signed up for the military, well, what did you expect it to be like???
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/robert165/

    I'm just trying to do this Jigsaw puzzle, before it rains anymore.

  4. #4
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    INFj None
    Posts
    9,827

    Default

    Seems pretty . . . sexist isn't quite the right word . . . male soldiers have always been expected to engage in sexual activity wherever they were and whether or not there was a war on with no concern as to whether or not their behavior led to a pregnancy but female soldiers apparently do not have that same liberty? Maybe sexist is the word I wanted after all.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  5. #5
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    468 sx/sp
    Socionics
    EII None
    Posts
    4,383

    Default

    Female soldiers can't take the pill or get Depo shots, something reliable?

  6. #6
    Senior Member Robert165's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    257

    Default

    hey, even if you signed up for the military, double standards are still unfair. please don't think i'm not on your side in this debate.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/robert165/

    I'm just trying to do this Jigsaw puzzle, before it rains anymore.

  7. #7
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Enneagram
    9w8 so/sx
    Posts
    11,544

    Default

    In the scheme of things I have no major problem with people who get pregnant (according to that article it's not even just the women held accountable here) being disciplined. The military, and specifically a war zone, is not comparable to civy street where you are entitled to all kinds of civil liberties, it's a war zone where one soldiers failure to do their job can affect the lives of other soldiers.

    I'd liken it to getting sunburnt: In the Army (at least here anyway) you can get disciplined for getting sunburnt, it's something that is preventable, it is something that is a personal responsibility and it is something that can have an impact on being able to do your job. The same criteria fits with getting pregnant, it is preventable, it is a personal responsibility and it does have an impact on being able to do your job.

    The solution is not no fraternisation, that's just not realistic, but it's hardly an acceptable situation for soldiers in a war zone to get knocked up. Contraceptives should be available.


    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Seems pretty . . . sexist isn't quite the right word . . . male soldiers have always been expected to engage in sexual activity wherever they were and whether or not there was a war on with no concern as to whether or not their behavior led to a pregnancy but female soldiers apparently do not have that same liberty? Maybe sexist is the word I wanted after all.
    The military is sexist, it makes no apologies for that either, it discriminates against weight and age and intelligence and a whole bunch of other things to, it is totally un-PC but anyone who enlists in the military is expected to be able to travel overseas and enter a war zone, they discriminate under the idea that it protects other soldiers.

    In civy street I'd be yelling out about how sexist it is to punish women for getting pregnant but there is no place in an army for a pregnant woman to be fighting in a war zone, she would have to be shipped home, that leaves her unit with one less soldier. Women do have to be more responsible than men in this regard, a man can get a woman pregnant and continue working, a woman cannot get pregnant and continue working.

    It's sexist, but hey, it often sucks to be a female in the army.

  8. #8
    Senior Member incubustribute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    ISFJ
    Posts
    297

    Default

    I'd still really like to know the answer to this question:

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Puppy View Post
    are you theoretically not to engage in sex while on active duty? I guess I assumed that this was okay and birth control available.
    It's also worth mentioning that birth control is never 100% effective...

  9. #9
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    8w7 sx/so
    Socionics
    EIE
    Posts
    3,919

    Default

    All things that are preventable that will lower the functionality of a soldier are bad things.
    Getting pregnant is just as bad as getting hooked on drugs, maybe even worse.
    It makes people hormonal, morning sick and immobile.
    If someone is against contraceptives and are still having sex while in hostile territory, I think they should revise their faith and face a court-martial.

    Honestly, that's in no way better than breaking your own leg with a lead pipe in order to avoid military service.

    As for females in the uniformed services... I'm all for it as long as they carry their own weight and do not distract people from doing their jobs by flirting etc.
    One of the best soldiers that I served with was female. At one point, she actually carried the backpack of a much larger guy when he sprained his ankle. Didn't even slow her down. 50 pound of extra gear.
    Booyya.

    I'm all against "Affirmative action" shit, though.
    People should be in a position they belong in because of their performance, not their sex, religion or ethnicity.

    I can definitely see drawbacks of being a female in the military. Generally speaking.
    Women are most often weaker and the whole menstruation and PMS thing can't make it a lot better.
    If a woman is strong and do not get hormonal and crazy, it's all good.

    For the record, I would not like to serve with testosterone-pumped idiots, either.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  10. #10
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    I agree with your point, Jesus. I think that from a purely biological perspective, pregnancy is what makes women weaker. Therefore, in a situation where equality and strength is required, pregnancy cannot come into the equation. There's no way to get around basic biological factors.

    Pregnancy can do more than make women hormonal and sick - it can make them die for a variety of reasons, not limited to ectopic pregnancy, gestational diabetes, weakened immune system...

    I am a feminist, but I also think that there are natural, biological limits to male/female equality that must be accepted by rational people.

Similar Threads

  1. Female Soldiers Complete Ranger School in Major Milestone for Women in Combat
    By Crabs in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 08-26-2015, 04:31 PM
  2. Pregnant Wife in Sudan Sentenced to Death for... Apostasy
    By Totenkindly in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 06-23-2014, 11:55 AM
  3. Soldier photographed fighting Taliban in Afghanistan, clad in pink boxers
    By swordpath in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 05-19-2009, 12:44 AM
  4. Moving the furniture in. Making the place cozy.
    By Brendan in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 05-14-2009, 02:52 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO