User Tag List

First 123 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 28

  1. #11
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    8
    Posts
    13,877

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Puppy View Post
    are you theoretically not to engage in sex while on active duty? I guess I assumed that this was okay and birth control available.
    OOOHHH no. Definitely not. Just having an emotional relationship with a soldier (as in, no physical contact, but emotionally involved) can get you a reduction in rank, pay, etc. Keeping in mind some commands and branches are different than others, most of the time it's extremely frowned upon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert165 View Post
    I have 2 (opposite) reactions:

    1- i agree with everything you say
    2- since you signed up for the military, well, what did you expect it to be like???
    .... I wasn't sure if I read this vomit you called a post correctly at first. I'll still attempt to answer, though. I suppose I expected to be able to be a soldier and do my job without prejudice. I don't think that's too much to ask.

    That's like saying why do women bother to work in any environment? Just because it IS sexist doesn't make it effin' right. I have the right to work, fuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Seems pretty . . . sexist isn't quite the right word . . . male soldiers have always been expected to engage in sexual activity wherever they were and whether or not there was a war on with no concern as to whether or not their behavior led to a pregnancy but female soldiers apparently do not have that same liberty? Maybe sexist is the word I wanted after all.
    Exactly. It's human nature, to end up finding people, whether at work, during hobbies, etc. The military clings to a lot of old sexist ideals about women like purity and weakness and being inherently emotional irrational beings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Female soldiers can't take the pill or get Depo shots, something reliable?
    Females can take the pill, only they have to bring it with them before they go overseas. Try asking for a Depo shot overseas and see how awesome of a reaction you get. Not to mention not all women are capable of taking these things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert165 View Post
    hey, even if you signed up for the military, double standards are still unfair. please don't think i'm not on your side in this debate.
    Uhm. Thanks for adding this I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    In the scheme of things I have no major problem with people who get pregnant (according to that article it's not even just the women held accountable here) being disciplined. The military, and specifically a war zone, is not comparable to civy street where you are entitled to all kinds of civil liberties, it's a war zone where one soldiers failure to do their job can affect the lives of other soldiers.

    I'd liken it to getting sunburnt: In the Army (at least here anyway) you can get disciplined for getting sunburnt, it's something that is preventable, it is something that is a personal responsibility and it is something that can have an impact on being able to do your job. The same criteria fits with getting pregnant, it is preventable, it is a personal responsibility and it does have an impact on being able to do your job.

    The solution is not no fraternisation, that's just not realistic, but it's hardly an acceptable situation for soldiers in a war zone to get knocked up. Contraceptives should be available.
    I agree entirely. I think the psychological affects of being punished for getting pregnant may annoy me some, but even this isn't enough to sway me that it's 'okay' to put yourself in a situation where you lose the ability to do your job.

    What annoys me is that the line is drawn so hard and deep that the "kids" are rebelling from the "parents" and they don't have the means to do it safely, and thus women are ending up pregnant.

    The military is sexist, it makes no apologies for that either, it discriminates against weight and age and intelligence and a whole bunch of other things to, it is totally un-PC but anyone who enlists in the military is expected to be able to travel overseas and enter a war zone, they discriminate under the idea that it protects other soldiers.
    Not to mention they train and force training on women that is equal to that of males, and then tell them once they get there that they aren't good enough to fight alongside the males they trained with. It's pretty effed up.

    What is even worse than that? The commercials, recruiters, and adverts all try to lure women in by saying they can do all these things.. they fail to tell them that they're all lies. They protray themselves inaccurately.

    Women do have to be more responsible than men in this regard, a man can get a woman pregnant and continue working, a woman cannot get pregnant and continue working.
    I've never, and will never, think that responsibility lies just within the woman just because she's the one that ends up pregnant. It takes two to tango. So it should take two to protect themselves.

    It's sexist, but hey, it often sucks to be a female in the army.
    True story.

    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    All things that are preventable that will lower the functionality of a soldier are bad things.
    Getting pregnant is just as bad as getting hooked on drugs, maybe even worse.
    It makes people hormonal, morning sick and immobile.
    If someone is against contraceptives and are still having sex while in hostile territory, I think they should revise their faith and face a court-martial.

    Honestly, that's in no way better than breaking your own leg with a lead pipe in order to avoid military service.

    As for females in the uniformed services... I'm all for it as long as they carry their own weight and do not distract people from doing their jobs by flirting etc.
    One of the best soldiers that I served with was female. At one point, she actually carried the backpack of a much larger guy when he sprained his ankle. Didn't even slow her down. 50 pound of extra gear.
    Booyya.

    I'm all against "Affirmative action" shit, though.
    People should be in a position they belong in because of their performance, not their sex, religion or ethnicity.

    I can definitely see drawbacks of being a female in the military. Generally speaking.
    Women are most often weaker and the whole menstruation and PMS thing can't make it a lot better.
    If a woman is strong and do not get hormonal and crazy, it's all good.

    For the record, I would not like to serve with testosterone-pumped idiots, either.
    But, don't men flirt all the time? Don't men get into fist fights, and do other dumb things that can distract from their jobs? I don't think that women should be told not to flirt just because they're women. The fact remains, women are cracked down on 10x more severely than men are in this regard. If a guy is distracted from his job flirting with a civilian chow hall worker, he probably won't have anything happen. A commander notices a man and woman in the same company talking all the time, throw the book at them.

    Menstruation is not the end of the world. I promise you that. Honestly, that's the excuse the army gives when they forbid women from sniper school and such. They say it's harder for women to be more hygenic. We're expected as basic soldiers to be able to stay out in the field period or no, but staying out in the field for sniper school is no-go? Please.

    Men act hormonal and crazy and they don't even have periods to blame it on.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

    Cimarron: maybe Prpl will be your girl-bud
    prplchknz: i don't like it

    In Search Of... ... Kiwi Sketch Art ... Dream Journal ... Kyuuei's Cook book ... Kyu's Tiny House Blog ... Minimalist Challenge ... Kyu's Savings Challenge

  2. #12
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Enneagram
    9w8 so/sx
    Posts
    11,544

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I think the psychological affects of being punished for getting pregnant may annoy me some but even this isn't enough to sway me that it's 'okay' to put yourself in a situation where you lose the ability to do your job.
    I agree. A women is hardly likely to get pregnant on purpose (unless she's trying to get shipped home, which changes my stance) so being ostracised while she's coming to grips with an unplanned pregnancy and an inability to work would make it doubly hard.

    I've never, and will never, think that responsibility lies just within the woman just because she's the one that ends up pregnant. It takes two to tango. So it should take two to protect themselves.
    Well, yes... and no. Both are just as responsible for sure, but the end results will affect the female more, she's the one who will no longer be able to work. I hate double standards, really, really hate them, like what you mention about the flirting, I think it's total crap to suggest women shouldn't flirt and make it a gender thing but when it comes to getting pregnant while on deployment, it is the woman who will be more effected and as such she needs to take responsibility for that.

  3. #13
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    NICE
    Posts
    1,721

    Default

    Haven't any of these chicks practiced get-off-at-Babylon?

  4. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Pregnant soldiers in war zone won't be punished - Yahoo! News

    The latest on the topic, it also briefly includes the decree that came out prior to it.



    What struck this in my head is here..



    Forgive me if this sounds bitter, but my experience overseas was that I had no choice but to force my head to hold high against a storm of males telling me that I was incapable of anything aside administrative duties. It seems to me the military has always thought females the weaker sex, and their actions time and time again prove it.

    We're frequently blamed for "distracting" soldiers from their duties, and we're always being forced to hold ourselves to "higher standards" than humanity itself to compensate for human interactions and, for God's sake, what comes natural to human beings in general.

    I believe that becoming pregnant might be a cowardly thing to do while overseas, and definitely takes away from the mission.. But. When you're condemned for even TALKING to the opposite sex too much, even if you maintain a professional relationship, how's a couple suppose to get the necessary birth control to prevent it?

    Does this go back to the theory of whether parents allow their children to have contraceptives? Is it better to have them available, even if you don't approve? Would soldiers get in trouble for needing them, and acknowledging that they need them?

    I'm still mulling the topic over in my mind. But I've never thought it right for humans being punished for doing what's human. The military has a strong way of disrespecting, and down right hating, females for everything they try to do, and then when topics like this come up, we're frequently to blame.
    There could be sexism involved in this but on the other hand it could be a move to prevent some soldiers deliberately becoming pregnant in order to be redeployed from an unpopular foreign mission.

  5. #15
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    4,516

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    We're frequently blamed for "distracting" soldiers from their duties, and we're always being forced to hold ourselves to "higher standards" than humanity itself to compensate for human interactions and, for God's sake, what comes natural to human beings in general.
    well... that's true of the men too. not just the women... or did you change focus?

    I believe that becoming pregnant might be a cowardly thing to do while overseas, and definitely takes away from the mission.. But. When you're condemned for even TALKING to the opposite sex too much, even if you maintain a professional relationship
    how's a couple suppose to get the necessary birth control to prevent it?
    that is their idea of birth control.
    don't do it 'cause we said not to do it.
    you follow all our other orders right?

    The military has a strong way of disrespecting, and down right hating, females for everything they try to do, and then when topics like this come up, we're frequently to blame.
    that actually probably has more to do with being outnumbered.

    what's the average ratio of men to women in your experience? 20:1? 10:1?
    we fukin won boys

  6. #16

    Default

    Women in the military is a bigger issue in the US than it is in the UK, I also would say that feminism in the US is different from feminism any place else in the world.

    Personally I think that its been more bitter and extremist, the SCUM manifesto, political lesbianism, pain-based politics, they've all been the mark of American feminism contra feminism in the UK or EU.

    So I'm not sure if the context or incidence are most important in this achieving a profile, I'd like to say that pregnancy and maternity leave and all that goes with it shouldnt ruin peoples careers, although I'd seriously qualify that by saying that pregnancy at any time of life should and can be a planned thing. Also if your priority is having children is the military the career for you? I dont mean that simply as a question for women but men too.

    The practice of celibacy within the RC clergy for instance arose as a tradition not simply because of any neurotic, sexist or boderline issues that early spiritualists had or spirit vs. temporal/body/worldly dichotomy, as is commonly supposed, but the demands of spreading the word or pilgrimage or crusader campaigns generally demanded an existence facing the real risk of a mortal injury and death.

    I'm not suggesting that soldiers should abstain from sex, just abstain from pregnancy.

  7. #17
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Enneagram
    9w8 so/sx
    Posts
    11,544

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocap View Post
    well... that's true of the men too. not just the women... or did you change focus?
    In the military the standards are different for men and women, it's just fact, women aren't allowed in combat roles in most armed forces this leads to corps that are men only and the views in those units of women are terrible, get them one on one and most are ok blokes but get them in a group and all sorts of disgraceful behaviour happens from my experience. I'm a reservist (which generally doesn't hold as strong views as regs) and I'm in a corp that has a fairly even spread of both genders so within my unit I don't experience a lot of sexist attitudes but when we're in a support role for combat units it's rampant and women are held to a different and higher standard.

    There are plenty of men who believe women shouldn't be in the military at all so what Ky says about women needing to be twice as good as a male to be considered half as worthy is generally accurate. It's part of the package of being a woman in the Army so you have little choice but to accept it and attempt to proove yourself worthy but the standards are different.

    that actually probably has more to do with being outnumbered.

    what's the average ratio of men to women in your experience? 20:1? 10:1?
    That is part of it in my experience. Fun fact I didn't know, according to Wiki the ADF (Aust. Defence Force) had the highest percentage of women in its employ in the world based on 1998-99 figures, so even with a high percentage of women I still witness the same things Ky does over there in the States.

    The views of many higher ups who have been in the military since the time when women were mainly nurses and their personal views on women having no place in the military has an impact too, it's not all officers and it is changing but there is still that sexist attitude.

    A guy screws up and it's seen as a case of 'boys will be boys', a woman does and it's an argument for why women shouldn't be in the military. At least that's how it appears.

    I think this is all separate to the issue of getting pregnant in a war zone though.

  8. #18
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Posts
    1,709

    Default

    I always thought it is best to have all female units, and all male units.

    Thats how the Israeli and Korean marines do it. And they are ranked as some of the best in the world.

  9. #19
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    7,917

    Default

    As soon as I heard this General's idea to punish pregnancy, I knew it wouldn't go through. Just bringing the idea up was enough to hurt their public relations.

    They were smart to "abort" this.

  10. #20
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    8
    Posts
    13,877

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocap View Post
    well... that's true of the men too. not just the women... or did you change focus?
    I'm fairly sure Trinity expressed herself better than I could here in response to this.

    that is their idea of birth control.
    don't do it 'cause we said not to do it.
    you follow all our other orders right?
    Since when was this about ME instead of females in the military? My personal life has no question in this, only my personal opinions on the matter. Just because I follow an order doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't disgust me or that it's right.

    that actually probably has more to do with being outnumbered.

    what's the average ratio of men to women in your experience? 20:1? 10:1?
    Trinity also said this better than I could.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Women in the military is a bigger issue in the US than it is in the UK, I also would say that feminism in the US is different from feminism any place else in the world.

    Personally I think that its been more bitter and extremist, the SCUM manifesto, political lesbianism, pain-based politics, they've all been the mark of American feminism contra feminism in the UK or EU.

    So I'm not sure if the context or incidence are most important in this achieving a profile, I'd like to say that pregnancy and maternity leave and all that goes with it shouldnt ruin peoples careers, although I'd seriously qualify that by saying that pregnancy at any time of life should and can be a planned thing. Also if your priority is having children is the military the career for you? I dont mean that simply as a question for women but men too.

    The practice of celibacy within the RC clergy for instance arose as a tradition not simply because of any neurotic, sexist or boderline issues that early spiritualists had or spirit vs. temporal/body/worldly dichotomy, as is commonly supposed, but the demands of spreading the word or pilgrimage or crusader campaigns generally demanded an existence facing the real risk of a mortal injury and death.

    I'm not suggesting that soldiers should abstain from sex, just abstain from pregnancy.
    Abstaining from pregnancy is the same thing as abstaining from sex in the military, if you didn't catch that in the OP. The entire point is contraceptives are not available.

    I think people can make careers out of the military while having a child, and I don't see how you'd ever assume that. You could technically say that with any job. "Should you really have a job doing xyz then if you want a family?"

    You know, you're right. We should all go back to just being baby factories and not working outside of the home if we want children. They obviously destroy and ruin lives, instead of enriching them... Oh wait.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    There are plenty of men who believe women shouldn't be in the military at all so what Ky says about women needing to be twice as good as a male to be considered half as worthy is generally accurate. It's part of the package of being a woman in the Army so you have little choice but to accept it and attempt to proove yourself worthy but the standards are different.
    This is exactly the situation at hand. Even if there were (and there is some, but not much) outrage about female treatment in the armed services, no one cares if anything is done about it because they cling to old ideals that have died long ago.

    A guy screws up and it's seen as a case of 'boys will be boys', a woman does and it's an argument for why women shouldn't be in the military. At least that's how it appears.
    There are many a days where I've had to hold my head in shame over things that shouldn't be preceived as wrong. Even today, I have trouble openly accepting that showing affection to an SO is an okay thing. It's uncomfortable, and unsettling, and upsetting, and makes for a hard relationship with me because of the ideas I've been forced down my throat. For God's sake, PERCEPTION IS ADMISSABLE IN THE COURT OF LAW FOR THE ARMY! Someone THINKING you are doing something is ENOUGH to get in trouble for doing something!

    I think this is all separate to the issue of getting pregnant in a war zone though.
    I found it impossible myself to talk about pregnancy in the army without harkening back to all the other problems as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by nomadic View Post
    I always thought it is best to have all female units, and all male units.

    Thats how the Israeli and Korean marines do it. And they are ranked as some of the best in the world.
    Here exactly is the sort of thinking that keeps us segregated. I don't care what other people rank Koreans as, they beat the shit out of their soldiers. Israeli people can have their segregation, I don't WANT it. I want the OPPOSITE. And I know there are men out there that genuinely appreciate working with us side by side. My squad was tight, we did a great job, got people there safely, and it had NOTHING to do with our gender. It had everything to do with us ALL being EQUAL soldiers and doing our part. It's all the bullshit outside of our work we're bombarded with that distracts us SO much more than a little fucking flirting.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

    Cimarron: maybe Prpl will be your girl-bud
    prplchknz: i don't like it

    In Search Of... ... Kiwi Sketch Art ... Dream Journal ... Kyuuei's Cook book ... Kyu's Tiny House Blog ... Minimalist Challenge ... Kyu's Savings Challenge

Similar Threads

  1. Female Soldiers Complete Ranger School in Major Milestone for Women in Combat
    By Crabs in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 08-26-2015, 04:31 PM
  2. Pregnant Wife in Sudan Sentenced to Death for... Apostasy
    By Totenkindly in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 06-23-2014, 11:55 AM
  3. Soldier photographed fighting Taliban in Afghanistan, clad in pink boxers
    By swordpath in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 05-19-2009, 12:44 AM
  4. Moving the furniture in. Making the place cozy.
    By Brendan in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 05-14-2009, 02:52 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO