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  1. #41
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Oh so you're drawing a distinction between politics and ideology here. Ok, now that makes your position much more clearer.

    BTW, have you read Wages of Destruction? That's widely considered the best work done on Nazi ecomomic policies.
    No, not read that book but would be interested to, cheers for the reference.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I would do that, I would also say that I think that some ideologies are pretty much just a channel for certain personality types or rather disorders, the ideological platform of the Nazis or AQ just appealled to people with specific needs to be at once submissive and dominant, terror's just the channel for those needs, for some people it never becomes as indiscriminate as abstractions like "infidels", "enemies of the German people" etc. for some its specific to particular people, wives, children, dependents.
    The problem with that it's an all too-convienient way to dismiss the appeal of such ideas and their effect upon the world. Plus, under closer examination, it doesn't entirely add up. The Nazis level of support came from various aspects of German society, so to pin it down to certain psychological types seems rather inappropriate.

    Nietzsche tried doing this in regards to Christianity, referring to it as a "Slave religion". Yet once again, upon closer examination it doesn't hold up - at least not in the manner he presented it. Kierkegaard probably more effectively delved into the matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    No, not read that book but would be interested to, cheers for the reference.
    I haven't gotten through reading it yet, so don't worry. I'm swamped by my to-read list - it's absolutely absurd.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    The problem with that it's an all too-convienient way to dismiss the appeal of such ideas and their effect upon the world. Plus, under closer examination, it doesn't entirely add up. The Nazis level of support came from various aspects of German society, so to pin it down to certain psychological types seems rather inappropriate.

    Nietzsche tried doing this in regards to Christianity, referring to it as a "Slave religion". Yet once again, upon closer examination it doesn't hold up - at least not in the manner he presented it. Kierkegaard probably more effectively delved into the matter.



    I haven't gotten through reading it yet, so don't worry. I'm swamped by my to-read list - it's absolutely absurd.
    Generalisations arent entirely water tight but I do believe that the ascendency of particular ideologies are associated with the ascendency of particular personality types or personality disorders. Once in place they can create all the personal, cultural and structural adjustments to make their personality the norm.

    Think Weber rather than Nietzsche, sociology and psychology rather than philosophy. It also doesnt preclude the possibility of other personality types existing, they just dont dominate and are marginalised or oppressed.

    It doesnt either exclude the possibility of certain individuals or groups entering into a "Devils pact", I'm sure that if you take other examples into account, for instance the reformation or Bolshevik Coup that there were players other than the authoritarian personalities which assumed control eventually and sought to terminate the trends they once unleashed.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Generalisations arent entirely water tight but I do believe that the ascendency of particular ideologies are associated with the ascendency of particular personality types or personality disorders. Once in place they can create all the personal, cultural and structural adjustments to make their personality the norm.
    I haven't found this to be the case in many of the studies I've gone over. Even official studies into the psychological states of terrorists have not found a correlation between their beliefs and activities and some disordered state of mind. The normality of such people seems to be the general consensus I've found. Same goes for in regards to men who operated the Concentration Camps.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    I haven't found this to be the case in many of the studies I've gone over. Even official studies into the psychological states of terrorists have not found a correlation between their beliefs and activities and some disordered state of mind. The normality of such people seems to be the general consensus I've found. Same goes for in regards to men who operated the Concentration Camps.
    Its what Eric Fromm would have described as the pathology of normalacy, he suggested that people conform to the social character, for some people its less difficult than others. For some it requires becoming neurotic or psychotic for others their personality structure doesnt require it.

  6. #46
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    Yet Eric Fromm was kinda controversial for politicisizing psychology was he not?

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Yet Eric Fromm was kinda controversial for politicisizing psychology was he not?
    Hmm, I dont know if he did, Fromm himself was a character of contrasts personally and as I said before somewhere he himself was a far left socialist but much of his critique was taken up by paleo-conservatives like Chris Lasch.

    I personally think he was too much concerned with sociology and social trends to be really considered political in the conventional sense. He was more an architect or bridging theorist from earlier individual, atomised theories to those of social pschologists.

  8. #48
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    That's not entirely what I meant. Unfortunately I'll have to explain this at another time. Kinda worn myself out atm.

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