User Tag List

First 12345 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 48

  1. #21
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    4,474

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Civilians suffer disproportionately in virtually every war; the difference between terrorism and warfare (guerrilla or conventional) depends on who is deliberately targeted.
    I am open to just about any definition if it works.

    So I assume under your definition the crashing of the jet into the Pentegon was not an act of terror but the Twin Towers were?
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  2. #22
    Senior Member Dooraven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    INTp
    Enneagram
    5w6
    Posts
    105

    Default

    My definition of terrorism is quite simple.

    "The simultaneous targeting of civilians in order to destroy a particular state or area"

    Basically anyone who targets civilians in order to destroy a state are terrorists,

    eg. Hamas calls for the complete destruction of Israel.
    Al Quaeda wants the US completly destroyed.

    Any other organization isn't a terrorist if they have a genuine reason to be fighting.
    INTp (MBTI)
    LII (Socionics) but typed as ILI as well
    5 wing 6
    Ti > Ni > Si > Ne > Te > Fi > Se > Fe

  3. #23
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,628

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    By those standards anyone with religion is a terrorist.... in Christianity there is a fear of sin or judgment.... breakign gods rules and the likes...

    Anything that controls the masses is usually fear based... so in totalitarian states the most affraid man is the one on top... because the only way they can rule is via fear.

    Power structures always corrupts - man is man after all.

    I think its fair to say that a small fraction of religious groups are tarrotists, and that by all means doens't mean a whole religious group. Almost always it's angry young men.... (I apprecaite there has been some demographic shift of more recent years). Most the the relgions cited within the umbralla of terrorisim are largely peace loving religions, but have a small fraction of angry young men trying to force their beleifs on other people.

    The west is no better, they try and force their values east-wards......

    I think it's difficult to really define terrorists and a homegenous group at all.
    I'm afraid I cant ever conclude that the "west is no better", unless you are meaning that those people who volunteer to kill abroad, including the 9/11 kamikazis were products of western societies, such as london.

    In which case I'd suggest there's no small amount of Anomie, people flee oppressive regimes in the third world and enter into western societies which tolerate their agitation, they are unstuck from their cultural context and capable of suicidal killings.

    I think that powerlessness can corrupt as much as power, perhaps in different ways, making people complicit or submissive when they ought not to be. Just a point that I make about power when it comes up.

    I dont agree that Christanity any longer attempts to instil fear and obedience in its adherents in the way you mention, perhaps it did at a time and perhaps it still does in some parishes or faith communities but having tracked the changes in the RC church, anglo-catholic church and some of the larger protestant congregations I couldnt concur with that view.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,628

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Because the cause of 911 was US foriegn policy....
    Afraid I cant believe that at all.

    I think the will to attack the US was there regardless for reasons which most western critics of US foreign policy would find absurd because they simply dont and wont fathom the thinking of the other which islamic fundamentalism is.

    I think its plausible that world politics or intrigue between states and intelligence communities had a hand in it too or at least did not prevent it when it could, I believe that the hand of Israeli intelligence and Russian stratagem will not be considered for some time in the future, possibly when the real threat of terrorist atrocity has receeded far enough and there isnt anything like the power struggles between nation states, rivals and allies, that there is today.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,628

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    I am open to just about any definition if it works.

    So I assume under your definition the crashing of the jet into the Pentegon was not an act of terror but the Twin Towers were?
    I think the target is unimportant, even were it private planes which were turned into missiles with only suicidal pilots on board, the reality was that the aim and end of those strikes were not destruction of the targets per se, it wasnt a logistical strike, it wasnt conventional war, there was no declaration of war, never has been, no uniformed troops, no exercise within the normal parameters of war, no government or authority in excel with a strategy, goal or individuals capable of negotiation with or settlement with.

    The point is to terrorise, to create fear and therefore conformity, even when the goals of these groups are partially realised in the form of regimes such as Taliban controlled Afghanistan the levels of terror and control required to ensure conformity just escalate, there is never an end to the hostility, new targets within and without are discovered because its the life blood of the regime and satisfies the psychological needs of the adherents, followers or disciples for an "other" to campaign against.

    While Eric Fromm was analysing nazism and fascism (arguably even communism) in most of his works like The Heart of Man, Fear of Freedom, The Dogma of Christ, his ideas are easily transferable to other ideologies such as totalitarian or politicised faith communities/identities.

  6. #26
    Sniffles
    Guest

    Default

    A distinction even has to be made between terrorism and political violence.

  7. #27
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    7w8 sx/so
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,927

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    A distinction even has to be made between terrorism and political violence.
    Damn Peguy, that's a hard one to crack apart isn't it?

    Unless you mean "political violence" as in violence against a state/nation (e.g. the officials of a regime, its troops, heads of that state, etc.) Vs. targeting the civilians of a given state (terrorism) in order to influence that regime/state?

    I'm interested to hear you expand that further, if you have time.

    I read about 15 different definitions of "terrorism" in the two classes I've taken that focus on it, and all of them are of coursed biased from the viewpoint which they were written from.

    One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter...etc....

    Cheers,

    -Halla
    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

    Quotes:
    "If somebody asks your MBTI type on a first date, run". -Donna Cecilia
    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

  8. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    infj
    Enneagram
    4
    Posts
    384

    Default

    halla, that was a terrific essay you wrote! very informative for me. maybe it was a good time for me to read it, but thnx all the same.

    i feel confused about my country's use of warfare compared to say afganistan or any other country that operates differently from what i'm used to. i don't know if the way the usa runs its military has integrity and such (just read some details about the abu ghraib prison and the atrocities that were captured on film).

    i wonder, is this what my government is doing to fight? i thought we only had wars that i knew about anyway. maybe not and its very sad to me that there are so many people, the majority i calculate, who aren't satisfied with their lives due to power distribution.

    makes me feel helpless in many respects. sometimes i think about a fountain of youth. you know, being able to live indefinitely on planet earth in this body of mine, and when i read and hear of all this conflict i'm actually relieved to know i won't have to endure this strife forever.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,628

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Damn Peguy, that's a hard one to crack apart isn't it?

    Unless you mean "political violence" as in violence against a state/nation (e.g. the officials of a regime, its troops, heads of that state, etc.) Vs. targeting the civilians of a given state (terrorism) in order to influence that regime/state?

    I'm interested to hear you expand that further, if you have time.

    I read about 15 different definitions of "terrorism" in the two classes I've taken that focus on it, and all of them are of coursed biased from the viewpoint which they were written from.

    One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter...etc....

    Cheers,

    -Halla
    I would make that distinction, I would suggest that its to do with with exhaustion of all other avenues for political action and the creation of an intolerable existence as a consequence.

    There's also got to be some way of evidencing a mandate for the political violence, such as a shadow executive or at least a movement to be negotiated with which has clear, tangible goals, expectations and aims or grievances.

    Next to those things I would suggest that they have to abide by the conventions of battle or as near an approximation as is humanly possible, you cant willfully target non-combatants and still try to maintain a resembalence of legitimacy. That's as much political violence as The Godfather was about politics or The Sopranos.

  10. #30
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    3,705

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    So I assume under your definition the crashing of the jet into the Pentegon was not an act of terror but the Twin Towers were?
    You are forgetting about the civilian passengers aboard the plane; the Pentagon was a legitimate military target (for a highly unworthy cause), but the means of carrying out the attack was pure terrorism. I would be have similar negative feelings, though admittedly not as strong or personal, if the perpetrators were democracy advocates in North Korea flying a civilian plane into the North Korean military headquarters.

Similar Threads

  1. Muslim Cleric issues Fatwa Against Suicide Bombings and Terrorism
    By Mal12345 in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02-21-2014, 09:49 AM
  2. Bin Laden, Al-Qaeda, and How Government Always Wins The War on Terror
    By DiscoBiscuit in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-04-2012, 07:27 PM
  3. Islamic terrorism and the silent majority.
    By Feops in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 109
    Last Post: 07-24-2009, 02:33 AM
  4. Night Terrors
    By raz in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 07-15-2009, 02:33 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO