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  1. #11
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Countries who have more power than others need to be very careful not to bulldozer their opinions and their culture onto other countries... Cultural sensitivities need to be adhered too even if they are badly understood.
    Why?

    As for terrorism, like I said in the other thread, just narrow the definition to groups that target civilians disproportionately to military targets, or those who target civilians as a first resort. Most people do this unconsciously, anyway, but might as well make it explicit in light of sophistic moral equivalence arguments.

  2. #12
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Why?

    As for terrorism, like I said in the other thread, just narrow the definition to groups that target civilians disproportionately to military targets, or those who target civilians as a first resort. Most people do this unconsciously, anyway, but might as well make it explicit in light of sophistic moral equivalence arguments.
    Because the cause of 911 was US foriegn policy....

  3. #13
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Because the cause of 911 was US foriegn policy....
    The ultimate cause of 9/11 was jihadist and Islamist ideology, which was the prism through which Al-Qaeda evaluated our foreign policy. Those are inherently expansionist ideologies, so isolationism would not have prevented such attacks in the long-term. In the meantime, some principles and interests take precedence over increased terrorism risks.
    Last edited by lowtech redneck; 12-26-2009 at 04:03 PM. Reason: clarification

  4. #14
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Regardless of the cause a more workable definition of terrorist would be helpful even degrees of terrorism like murder (terrorist of the 1st degree, 2nd degree etc.). Still if we did that the 2nd (Bush Jrs) invasion of Iraq and seems like it would fall under LTRNs definition and thus would make US a terrorist state too. On average it is deemed our most recent invasion of Iraq caused over a million civilian deaths. ORB survey of Iraq War casualties - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Regardless of the purpose; the 911 bombers were clearly terrorists.


    See also: Merry Jihad Charlie Brown Video
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

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  5. #15
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    The ultimate cause of 9/11 was jihadist and Islamist ideology, which was the prism through which Al-Qaeda evaluated our foreign policy. Those are inherently expansionist ideologies, so isolationism would not have prevented such attacks in the long-term. In the meantime, some principles and interests take precedence over increased terrorism risks.
    I did some primary research (albeit qualitative) with young arabs shortly after 911 (maybe 3 weeks later), it was very clearly an issue of forieng policy (they had no issue with US people or culutre but hated foriegn policy).

    They talked of sending their kids out to play and not knowing if they would come home alive. Kids bringing home gun shells with made in the US stamped on them and how it affected their day to day live. Sad, really sad.

    I am going to pass on this thread, because I'm not wanting to provoke.

    Enjoy your chat

  6. #16
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    Still if we did that the 2nd (Bush Jrs) invasion of Iraq and seems like it would fall under LTRNs definition and thus would make US a terrorist state too.
    Not really; civilians were not targeted disproportionately to military targets, nor were they ever targeted as a first resort. The Iraq invasion was misguided and reckless, but did not constitute terrorism.

  7. #17
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell
    Countries who have more power than others need to be very careful not to bulldozer their opinions and their culture onto other countries... Cultural sensitivities need to be adhered too even if they are badly understood.
    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Because the cause of 911 was US foriegn policy....
    From one post to the next, this sounds like a narrow answer to a broad question.
    Last edited by Cimarron; 12-26-2009 at 04:20 PM. Reason: additional quote to show reasoning
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  8. #18
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Perhaps the civilians were not the primary target but they nevertheless suffered disproportunately in the bombings compared to the military, particularly in comparison with other invasions. The casualty estimations knew of this yet we killed them anyway. Just saying. If we allowed the terrorists crimes to be mitigated because their primary target was military or government it would not take them much efforts to reframe their terror creating scenarios.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
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  9. #19
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    They talked of sending their kids out to play and not knowing if they would come home alive. Kids bringing home gun shells with made in the US stamped on them and how it affected their day to day live. Sad, really sad.
    Those arabs didn't bomb the WTC; Al-Qaeda did, and their agenda is very explicit.

    The Arab/Israeli issue is not particularly cut-and-dry. Would you prefer that we leave Israel defenseless?

  10. #20
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    Perhaps the civilians were not the primary target but they nevertheless suffered disproportunately in the bombings compared to the military, particularly in comparison with other invasions. The casualty estimations knew of this yet we killed them anyway. Just saying. If we allowed the terrorists crimes to be mitigated because their primary target was military or government it would not take them much efforts to reframe their terror creating scenarios.
    Civilians suffer disproportionately in virtually every war; the difference between terrorism and warfare (guerrilla or conventional) depends on who is deliberately targeted.

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