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  1. #1
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Default Completely polarized

    The United States Senate has passed a Health-Care Reform bill on Christmas Eve. (Now the House of Representatives and the Senate will try to combine each of their versions into one whole bill.)

    Striking to me is the complete party-line split--Every time.

    What do you think are the main causes of such division? Is it beneficial for Congress to work this way? Where do you think party politics will go from here? Is this a sign, a fork in the road?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/24/us...s.html?_r=2&hp

    In Senate Health Care Vote, New Partisan Vitriol
    By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN
    Published: December 23, 2009

    WASHINGTON The vote on Monday, in the dead of night, was 60 to 40. The vote on Tuesday, just after daybreak, was 60 to 39. And the vote on Wednesday afternoon, at a civil hour but after less-than-civil debate, was 60 to 39 again an immutable tally that showed Democrats unwavering in the march to adopt a far-reaching overhaul of the health care system over united Republican opposition.

    The votes also marked something else: the culmination of more than a generation of partisan polarization of the American political system, and a precipitous decline in collegiality and collaboration in governing that seemed to move in inverse proportion to a rising influence of lobbying, money, the 24-hour news cycle and hostilities on talk shows and in the blogosphere.

    The health care legislation was approved Thursday morning, with the Senate divided on party lines something that has not happened in modern times on so important a shift in domestic policy, or on major legislation of any kind, lawmakers and Congressional historians said.
    Last edited by Cimarron; 12-27-2009 at 09:41 PM.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Dooraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    The United States Senate has passed a Health-Care Reform bill on Christmas Eve. (Now the House of Representatives and the Senate will try to combine each of their versions into one whole bill.)

    Striking to me is the complete party-line split--Every time.

    What do you think are the main causes of such division? Is it beneficial for Congress to work this way? Where do you think party politics will go from here? Is this a sign, a fork in the road?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/24/us...s.html?_r=2&hp
    Ideological differences obviously. No.

    They will probably stay the same, Fork in the road? Doubt it but has clear signs of it.
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  3. #3
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Default

    If it's caused only by ideological differences, and there has always been some difference in ideology between parties or people, what makes it so much more divisive now?
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  4. #4
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    There's much more to this than sincere ideology. We have a political system which has become so infused with the two party system that it is in the interest of politicians to simply play the party role. Oppose the other party, because their loss usually translates into your win.
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  5. #5
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    EDIT: Off topic. Sorry Cim. But yeah, basically echo what Magic said.



  6. #6
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    The "Should we approve health-care?" Thread is separate, so I intended this to be a different focus.

    When I say completely polarized, I mean complete. (I don't know how closely people are following the news or reading this article.) Usually there are a few of one party that join the opposition in their votes, but these recent health-care votes are exactly the number of Democrats in the Senate vs. the number of Republicans in the Senate.

    There are 60 Democratic senators (including two who don't belong to a party, but usually prefer Dem. over Rep.)
    Round one of this bill passed with exactly 60 votes from exactly those 60 senators.
    Round two and so on happened with the same 60 voting the same way.

    I feel as though we could have asked any 60 random Democrats, and any 40 random Republicans, that we'd found on the street to sit in there and make that vote by party. Same result.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  7. #7
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    It's because democrats and republicans receive fundamentally different information.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  8. #8
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    One thing I was wondering is whether this is an inevitable result as our government becomes more democratic. Though, as Haphazard's hinting, that in itself is affected by what information (and many times, interpretation) the public/voters receive.
    Last edited by Cimarron; 12-30-2009 at 09:06 PM. Reason: first sentence word-choice
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  9. #9
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    What polarization means is that one set of the Corporate Healthcare lobby along with venture capital that would stand to benefit if the "reform" were written this or that way. Are lined up on one side and p-moaning the other.

    Loose translation? Grab your ankles American Citizens and prepare to get f* cked!

    This country waste 60 percent more on each individual in healthcare cost vs. any other nation in the entire world.

    We have the highest mortality rate for adults over 50 and rank 41st in longevity globally.

    People are crapping so much Prozac, Birth Control etc. into the water supply, blue gill and other fresh water fish are maturing slower
    and male fish are being found that have female organs.

    Most of the health care problems can be solved easily.

    1. Stop eating crap pre-processed food.
    2. Get a little exercise.
    3. Tell your doctor and the medical system to stick it.

    The third leading cause of death in this nation is MEDICAL CARE.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Ethereal's Avatar
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    The two party system is very deeply entrenched, and insidiously dominating. It is in the best interest of the two parties to stay in control, and they find many ways to do so.

    For instance, take this...
    United States presidential election debates - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Any coincidence that independent and third party candidates get eschewed in the debates, in references from D/R politicians (In NJ gubernatorial debates, R candidate said NJ has two choices, the I candidate had to correct him), and completely ignored by the mainstream media. And even those who are in the two party system but do not agree with the set ideologies, they are shunned as outcasts on Big media outlets like Fox, MSNBC, and CNN, much like Ron Paul was (Agree or disagree with his policies, he was very much shafted and mistreated by the republican party and the mainstream media during the election).

    This is important because it is sending a message. If politicians want to rise to prominence, they are going to have to maneuver within the system, and going against this system is a problem to their careers.

    Now, the Obama administration has really hyped-up health-care reform, to the point where just about everything else has been eschewed. Furthermore, the democrats and republicans are starting to look strikingly similar in areas that really matter, such as monetary reform and war-policy.

    The exaggerated partisanship in the health-care reform debates could very well be the upper-echelons of the two-party system pulling strings to make any difference as glaring as possible. Whether the party leaders truly have ideology and representation of the people at heart and not power and control, is questionable at best...

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