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Thread: Minimum Wage

  1. #51
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    First of all, a lot of businesses for a lot of jobs don't need quality labor. In fact, a lot also benefit more from making shitty products than quality products (again, specifically if they are oligopolies or monopolies). Secondly, to attract talent (and I'm not even going to get into all of the problems with that theory) one need only pay more than the other options, no matter how low that is. It's all about comparison. The point then, again, is that if an oligopoly of companies all agree to be equally cheap, people will not have the choice to get a better paying job in that particular field/market, because there won't be any.

    And we are talking about minimum wage increases...

    The kind of jobs that pay minimum wage don't require such specialized labor that people in one 'job market' can't migrate to another one.

    If you can flip burgers, you can work a checkout counter.



    As an aside, i understand the advantage of inferior goods in a bad market etc., but unless you are at the very lowest level (if at all), you're getting paid more than minimum wage to work a production line.


    $8/hr isn't a ton of money, but I don't see why that should be the minimum. I've worked for $8/hr before. I busted my ass moving things out of people's houses. But in California, I can get a job holding a sign at a construction site and get paid the same. That's nice and all for those guys, but it just makes it more difficult to get that extra dollar raise for everyone "a step up" and working for $13-20 an hour (at the same company), because now the sign guy is getting that cash.

    Screw that.

    Have you ever worked these jobs? The minimum wage crowd is a bunch of losers, or they are students, (or they work part-time) they shouldn't be rewarded for it.*

    *Edit: Characteristics of Minimum Wage Workers: 2008

    "Although workers under age 25 represented only about one-fifth of hourly-paid workers, they made up half of those paid the Federal minimum wage or less. Among employed teenagers paid by the hour, about 11 percent earned the minimum wage or less, compared with about 2 percent of workers age 25 and over."

    "Part-time workers (persons who usually work less than 35 hours per week) were more likely than their full-time counterparts to be paid the Federal minimum wage or less (about 7 percent versus about 2 percent)."

    Also, I can't find the data, but most people who work these jobs are only there for less than a year.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    Have you ever worked these jobs? The minimum wage crowd is a bunch of losers, or they are students, they shouldn't be rewarded for it.
    Hang on a minute I dont care what they are, if they're paid to do a thing and they do then they deserve the money for it, most of them are not ever going to be able to properly negotiate increases in wages and its pretty marginal whatever rises they do get.

    Its got nothing to do with what sort of a person they are most of the rich people I see on TV are losers, I'd eat them all in an instant.

  3. #53
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    ^OK, they deserve to get paid, I never claimed otherwise...but not $8/hr. That's just too high.

    I'm not saying make them work for free. But as I pointed out, it doesn't help the other workers for "the sign holder" to get paid more for his labor than he really should, to the detriment of everyone else at that job.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    "most of them are not ever going to be able to properly negotiate increases in wages and its pretty marginal whatever rises they do get."

    This is incorrect. Most do work and get themselves to a higher wage within a year. Let me find the data.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    ^OK, they deserve to get paid, I never claimed otherwise...but not $8/hr. That's just too high.

    I'm not saying make them work for free. But as I pointed out, it doesn't help the other workers for "the sign holder" to get paid more for his labor than he really should, to the detriment of everyone else at that job.
    Why?

    I mean I hear from conservatives all the time how people shouldnt envy other peoples earnings, if its the expectaton that people arent going to give a thought to the earnings of the rich then they should forget about the sign holder.

    Anyway, if they're paid properly why would they worry?

  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    "most of them are not ever going to be able to properly negotiate increases in wages and its pretty marginal whatever rises they do get."

    This is incorrect. Most do work and get themselves to a higher wage within a year. Let me find the data.
    I've no reason to doubt you, so you dont need to go on a stat hunt unless you really want to.

    I was talking about the people you described as losers rather than students.

  7. #57
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Supporting data for above:

    "Nearly two-thirds of minimum wage workers move above the minimum wage within one year, and the median raise for those workers is over 10 percent.2 For full-time minimum wage workers, the median first-year raise is almost 14 percent."

    - William Even and David Macpherson, "Rising Above the Minimum Wage," Employment Policies Institute, January 2000.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  8. #58
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Why?

    I mean I hear from conservatives all the time how people shouldnt envy other peoples earnings, if its the expectaton that people arent going to give a thought to the earnings of the rich then they should forget about the sign holder.

    Anyway, if they're paid properly why would they worry?
    Huh? Once again, I think the sign holder should get paid.

    My point is, 8/hr for doing crap work is excessive, and the money that could go toward wages for other people at that same company is instead going to minimum wage increases. If you own a business, you have to make a cut somewhere. Guess what, most likely, the owner isn't cutting his profits. He's cutting elsewhere.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  9. #59
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    Supporting data for above:

    "Nearly two-thirds of minimum wage workers move above the minimum wage within one year, and the median raise for those workers is over 10 percent.2 For full-time minimum wage workers, the median first-year raise is almost 14 percent."

    - William Even and David Macpherson, "Rising Above the Minimum Wage," Employment Policies Institute, January 2000.
    EPI's a notorious front for the hotel and restaurant lobby. Take that info with a grain of salt.

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics" - Samuel Langhorn Clemens

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    Huh? Once again, I think the sign holder should get paid.

    My point is, 8/hr for doing crap work is excessive, and the money that could go toward wages for other people at that same company is instead going to minimum wage increases. If you own a business, you have to make a cut somewhere. Guess what, most likely, the owner isn't cutting his profits. He's cutting elsewhere.
    If an employer is employing people he doesn't need, then he's either not a very good employer, or has other priorities than simply profit, wouldn't you say?

    Minimum wages primarily cut into profit margins. Since this is a marginal shift, prices do not subsequently rise ("passing on the cost to customers"), for fear of losing business to competitors (who will make up the marginal loss with the volume increase). Meanwhile, since low-wage workers tend to spend most of their money, anyway, there is an increase in the velocity of money, to the benefit of the entire economy.

  10. #60
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Also, I probably shouldn't have called the long-term minimum wage workers "losers." I'm just reflecting my personal, less-than-favorable impression of people I've worked with in the past.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

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