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  1. #21
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    About 1 out of 4 people in the US are non-Christians. So from a business standpoint, it makes more sense to use "Happy Holidays" than "Merry Christmas", and acknowledge more of the market.
    According to the census, its more like 15%, the majority of which are culturally Christian atheists and agnostics (like myself) with an emotional attachment to the holiday.

    And the "happy holidays" thing is highly annoying because it ruins the thematic "spirit" of the holiday for the vast majority of people in order to indulge a.) a small but vocal minority OF a minority of people or b.) a larger-though still small-and far more vocal militant PC brigade.
    Last edited by lowtech redneck; 12-19-2009 at 07:58 PM. Reason: clarification

  2. #22
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    According to the census, its more like 15%, the majority of which are culturally Christian atheists and agnostics (like myself) with an emotional attachment to the holiday.
    You are probably thinking of back in 1990, when 86% identified as Christian. But since 2008, the figure has been at 76% and declining, according to census data and the CIA Fact Book. So it's about 1 in 4 now.

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    And the "happy holidays" thing is highly annoying because it ruins the thematic "spirit" of the holiday for the vast majority of people in order to indulge a.) a small but vocal minority OF a minority of people or b.) a larger-though still small-and far more vocal militant PC brigade.
    How can saying "Happy Holidays" help ruin the holidays? It's not as if people are saying "have a shitty holiday".

    The vast majority aren't offended by someone saying "Happy Holidays" to them, and the people who are, are beyond petty.

  3. #23
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    You are probably thinking of back in 1990, when 86% identified as Christian. But since 2008, the figure has been at 76% and declining, according to census data and the CIA Fact Book. So it's about 1 in 4 now.



    How can saying "Happy Holidays" help ruin the holidays? It's not as if people are saying "have a shitty holiday".

    The vast majority aren't offended by someone saying "Happy Holidays" to them, and the people who are, are beyond petty.
    1.) Actually, I was thinking of 2000-2001 figures, adjusted for non-replies (more than five percent of the total). Even by more recent, and unadjusted, numbers, the percentage of respondents who identify with a religion other than Christianity is about 4%, the rest being overwhelmingly irreligious cultural Christians.

    2.) Somehow, I doubt you would think it petty to resent it if corporations or organized "civil liberties" groups tried to force everyone not to say "Happy Halloween" or not set up iconic Halloween decorations in public places for the ostensible purpose of not offending a small number of ultra-fundamentalist Christians who think its satanic, Wiccans who wish to call it "Samhain," or general malcontents who simply wish to ruin everyone's fun because the holiday is most important to people they happen to dislike. Now replace Halloween with a holiday whose thematic importance is much greater for the overwhelmingly vast majority of people (both religious AND secular); the resentment towards organized attempts to either invalidate or repress attempts to celebrate Christmas in a community context seems imminently reasonable to me.
    Last edited by lowtech redneck; 12-20-2009 at 01:28 PM. Reason: clarification

  4. #24
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Unless I know someone's beliefs - I still say Merry Christmas.

    Anyone who would be offended at this is missing the forest for the trees.

    Take the blessing in the spirit it was given. Translate it yourself.
    ~luck favors the ready~


    Shameless Self-Promotion:MDP2525's Den and the Start of Motorcycle Maintenance

  5. #25
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    1.) Actually, I was thinking of 2000-2001 figures, adjusted for non-replies (more than five percent of the total). Even by more recent, and unadjusted, numbers, the percentage of respondents who identify with a religion other than Christianity is about 4%, the rest being overwhelmingly irreligious cultural Christians.

    2.) Somehow, I doubt you would think it petty to resent it if corporations or organized "civil liberties" groups tried to force everyone not to say "Happy Halloween" or not set up iconic Halloween decorations in public places for the ostensible purpose of not offending a small number of ultra-fundamentalist Christians who think its satanic, Wiccans who wish to call it "Samhain," or general malcontents who simply wish to ruin everyone's fun because the holiday is most important to people they happen to dislike. Now replace Halloween with a holiday whose thematic importance is much greater for the overwhelmingly vast majority of people (both religious AND secular); the resentment towards organized attempts to either invalidate or repress attempts to celebrate Christmas in a community context seems imminently reasonable to me.
    What about those who want to boycott the Gap because they mention the solstice in their commercials?

    Also, whoever mentioned the economy of using "holidays" because there ARE multiple holidays in December makes SOME sense. Generally when someone says they're "going home for the Holidays" it means they'll be there from Christmas through New Years. One could easily extrapolate that any time someone says "holiday" means both when greeters are wishing you "happy holidays". Sometimes "holidays" this time of year even include Thanksgiving.

    There are a lot of schools that can't mention Halloween due to the fears you mentioned and therefore call any party during that time a "Fall" or "Autumn" party. Many places opt not to put up witches and cats or anything vaguely 'satanic' and instead decorate with generic gourds and leaves. However, these have a similar economy to "Happy Holidays" -- they don't look ridiculous when they're still up well into November.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  6. #26
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    What about those who want to boycott the Gap because they mention the solstice in their commercials?
    They are also highly annoying, though the resentment factor is admittedly decreased by the fact that I (and most everyone else) don't really care about solstices. The fact remains that the vast majority of the population wishes to indulge in a three-week thematic celebration of a specific holiday (New Years celebrations, the only other seasonal holiday celebrated by a substantial percentage of the population, doesn't really begin until after Christmas), and diluting that holiday experience for so many people in order to slightly decrease a sense of alienation for a small percentage of the population has a decidedly negative utilitarian effect, overall.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    Unless I know someone's beliefs - I still say Merry Christmas.

    Anyone who would be offended at this is missing the forest for the trees.

    Take the blessing in the spirit it was given. Translate it yourself.
    You know the funny thing about this is that there is a movement among evangelical protestants and the RC religious/clergy to wish people a holy and happy Christmas.

    This isnt because of any secularisation or commercialisation of the season but because "Merry" can be construed as meaning drunken

  8. #28
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    This isnt because of any secularisation or commercialisation of the season but because "Merry" can be construed as meaning drunken
    That's hilarious....unless they succeed in any efforts to pressure others into doing likewise, in which case they become annoying twits.

  9. #29
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    I watch people scurry around in panic over Christmas and I keep trying to tell them, "It doesn't have to be this way!" And yet, they keep saying back, "Yes it does! This is how it's always been!"
    I feel sorry for the SFJs running themselves ragged, as I just sit back and enjoy their baking.
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

    Quinlan's Creations

  10. #30
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    i'm jewish and i say "merry christmas."

    so really, i'm just a heathen.

    "happy cold weather to you, ma'am."


    But seriously, I'm ok with being the 'minority', I don't get offended if someone says have a nice Christmas or something like that.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

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