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  1. #11
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyx View Post
    Yes, food, like everything else, has become industrialized... but when you are dealing with matters of food sustaining life and trying to industrialize that fact you end up with an industrialized life. Corporations are killing us.
    I agree with the first line but why implicate the corporations like that?

    It kind of attributes a conspiratorial nature or intrigue to the corporations, I just think they are opportunistic, both perpetrator and victim of over arching trends, the same as the rest of us.

    There are public and private corporations, in Dublin they refer to the public/city authority or council as the Dublin Corporation for instance, they're just businesses which in the fullness of time experience enthropy and bureaucratic malaise.

  2. #12
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Nothing really new.

  3. #13
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Alright I just finished watching the video ceecee recommended "Our Daily Bread"

    I saw Food Inc. earlier this summer; the effect of being grossed out lasted for about two weeks.

    There's a really big difference in the tone of Our Daily Bread vs. Food Inc. I much preferred ODB's presentation on how food is manufactured over the preachy tone that was in Food Inc. My stomach and sensibilities were more disturbed by ODB though.

    I don't know how food can be mass produced for billions of people without this type of thing. How many people can eat off a few hundred acres of usable farm land? How much usable land is even available? The next best solution is food co-ops but those are fit for villages and very small towns not cities with millions of people.

    The question for me is how can you efficiently, sustainably, and ethically produce food for massive numbers of people. At this point in our development to rant and rave about the evil corporations is moot. It seems to me that in order to decentralized food production you'd have to diffuse and decentralize population centers. If each family unit or commune were to produce their own food, they'd need to have land to do it and enough labor to produce food year round. Advances in food production allowed us to move from an agrarian society to a the post-industrial society we currently live in. Who wants to take a step backward?

    There was a big snowstorm that hit the east coast of the US this weekend. I drove by at least five grocery stores on Friday night and all of the parking lots were packed. I went into one just to see what the state of the store was and it was like a mad frenzy inside. The shelves were completely cleaned out, you couldn't find one loaf of bread or a bag of rice. All they had left was a few dented bottles of diet cranberry juice. I assume there was a similar picture at the other grocery stores.

    I love Whole Foods Market, I'm there every week but as much as I love my Lady Moon Farm organic red bell pepper and my Stonyfield organic yogurt I don't know how possible it is for companies like those to remain organic and and still accommodate panic shopping like I mentioned above. The sheer fact that there were at least five grocery stores within a 5-10 mile radius of my home that could accommodate thousands of panicky people is a good thing to me.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
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  4. #14
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    I don't think we will take a backward step by relying on local farming. The current efficiency driven food system where everything arrives just in time is far more susceptible to the risks of natural disasters and other problems than food that is grown and stored locally. In fact Havana is probably better prepared for a hurricane than miami is because it is probably the city that has the largest amount of urban farms.

    In this video Joel Salatin talks about farming with a sense of forgiveness or preparedness for disasters:

    YouTube - Sissy Farmer (Joel Salatin on Forgiveness)

    Joel produces a remarkable amount of food on 100 acres of land. I couldn't find the figures, but I do know that Joel has calculated that if we had farms as productive as his on all of america's golf courses they would produce more than enough food for america.

    Here's another snippet where Joel talks about the viability of mass food production by mom and pop farmers:

    In recent years, Iíd say my biggest change has been regarding economies of scale and marketing realities. Twenty years ago my vision for the food system in Virginia was thousands of little mom and pop farms like ours serving their neighbors. I no longer think that is viable for two reasons. First, urban centers would be hard pressed to grow all their own food within their communities. Second, most farmers are marketing Neanderthals. Either they really donít want to be around people, or they donít know how to interact with them. A successful marketer needs to be a bit theatrical; a storyteller, schmoozer, gregarious type. And thatís not typical, especially among John Deere jockeys.

    Whatís the answer? I donít know, but what Iíve come up with is what I call food clusters. These require production, processing, marketing, accounting, distribution and customers ó these six components make a whole. The cluster can be farmer-driven, customer-driven, even distribution-driven initially. But once these six components are in place, it can micro-duplicate the industrial on a bio-regional or foodshed scale, which includes urban centers. I think a local integrity food system could supplant the opaque industrial one in Virginia, but realistically it would comprise several hundred or a thousand $5-$10 million food clusters rather than several thousand mom and pop $100,000 fully-integrated enterprises. I certainly never thought our farm would top $1 million in annual sales, but it happened.
    source: Everything He Wants to Do is Illegal

  5. #15
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    This is something I really don't know much about.
    But, I vaguely seem to recall an article which when to some lengths to demonstrate that industrial farming is actually less efficient. I was rather surprised.
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  6. #16
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Ah! found the stats on a random blog:

    Each season, the 100-acre Polyface Farm produces 30,000 eggs, 10,000 broilers, 800 stewing hens, 50 beeves (25,000 lbs of beef), 250 hogs (25,000 lbs of pork), 1,000 turkeys, and 500 rabbits.
    a catalogue of resistance: Polyface Farms

  7. #17
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Alright I just finished watching the video ceecee recommended "Our Daily Bread"

    I saw Food Inc. earlier this summer; the effect of being grossed out lasted for about two weeks.

    There's a really big difference in the tone of Our Daily Bread vs. Food Inc. I much preferred ODB's presentation on how food is manufactured over the preachy tone that was in Food Inc. My stomach and sensibilities were more disturbed by ODB though.
    I'm glad you watched it. Oh yes, mine were as well. Normally this sort of thing doesn't effect me but the way it was presented, sort of like the covers were just thrown back for you to see without another person's input, had much to do with it.

    The question for me is how can you efficiently, sustainably, and ethically produce food for massive numbers of people. At this point in our development to rant and rave about the evil corporations is moot. It seems to me that in order to decentralized food production you'd have to diffuse and decentralize population centers. If each family unit or commune were to produce their own food, they'd need to have land to do it and enough labor to produce food year round. Advances in food production allowed us to move from an agrarian society to a the post-industrial society we currently live in. Who wants to take a step backward?

    Exactly. I can't possibly get angry because the alternative is just as moot of a point for too many people. Who has the time to do anything?

    There was a big snowstorm that hit the east coast of the US this weekend. I drove by at least five grocery stores on Friday night and all of the parking lots were packed. I went into one just to see what the state of the store was and it was like a mad frenzy inside. The shelves were completely cleaned out, you couldn't find one loaf of bread or a bag of rice. All they had left was a few dented bottles of diet cranberry juice. I assume there was a similar picture at the other grocery stores.
    Living in a snow prone area as I do, we don't see as much of this but my parents moved from Michigan to Maryland and lived there for a decade. I know exactly what you're talking about and it bothered me tremendously that people panicked this much. More that they were so unprepared that it warranted this much panic.

    I love Whole Foods Market, I'm there every week but as much as I love my Lady Moon Farm organic red bell pepper and my Stonyfield organic yogurt I don't know how possible it is for companies like those to remain organic and and still accommodate panic shopping like I mentioned above. The sheer fact that there were at least five grocery stores within a 5-10 mile radius of my home that could accommodate thousands of panicky people is a good thing to me.
    Stonyfield organic yogurt. If I combine that with a few episodes of True Blood and a warm blanket, that would constitute a real guilty pleasure binge. When I moved from Detroit to the west coast of Michigan, I got to swim in the bounty of agricultural wonderfulness. I always had a dream to farm. Enough to feed my family and what I couldn't raise, I wanted to buy locally. Fortunately I have been able to do that. I joined a local co-op and I do put in hours to educate myself and get to know the farmers. I started with two raised bed gardens and now I have 4 and with the knowledge and guidance of these farmers, I'm ready to tackle more come spring. I have gotten to know several organic farmers and observe their methods of working with the land and seasons here. I get all my beef and pork from two local farmers. My chicken and eggs from another. I remember my kids having to really learn to whack those brown egg shells that are nothing like the mass produced thin white ones in the store. I know my family is eating better. I'm seeing to that. What I wanted to accomplish more than anything was self-reliance and sustaining on a family sized level as well as support local farmers with what I couldn't produce. Not everyone is as lucky as I am to live in an area like this but there are alternatives. Urban farming is taking off like wildfire.

    Urban farming movement 'like a revolution' - CNN.com

    There are ways to do this. The old ways combined with new technology and efficency. Raising then preserving your harvest. Freezing, canning, drying, smoking. Being prepared for whatever is thrown at you with at least a food source to keep you and your family going. The satisfaction I get come fall, when I look at the rows of cans I processed, a freezer full of food and I know where it all came from and my seeds and transplants staying warm and waiting to go in the soil come spring. It's so rewarding. I hope that more people look into it. Start with one pot. Grow some tomatoes and herbs. You'll never find a jar of spaghetti sauce that good on a store shelf, I guarantee it.
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