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  1. #21
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    Don't bother with "what is _______?" questions. Nothing good will come of it.
    I am only curious of perspective, not of fact. I don't believe there is a consensus for the definitions of such mutable terms.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I guess my conceptualisation or definition of freedom is essentially freedom as an objective condition of individual autonomy. It's different from political freedom, being carefree, economic freedom/prosperity, all of which together combine to provide opportunity to the individual.

    The thing about it is that I believe this is an objective condition, however, I also believe that society and interdependence as a condition are ontologically prior to individualism, if only by virtue of the fact that everyone begins life in a state of total dependence that they could and should develop or mature out of.

    I dont believe that the world has reached a state which really permits or enables individualism yet but I think that that state is the only really valid objective. I dont think that people go through a state of dependency, involuntary interdependence, independence (individualism), voluntary interdependence. Instead I'd conceptualise it similarly but with voluntary independence as the final stage.

  3. #23
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    And completely didactic.

    '

  4. #24
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Ask Kris Kristofferson and Janis Joplin.

  5. #25
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    So the only true Freedom is through totalitarianism?
    Only for the totalitarian.

    But, yes, your statement would still be correct, even if the number of people experiencing that true freedom are very limited. And of course, I'm strictly taking about social freedom only. Because you can have all of the political power you want, and thermodynamics still won't emancipate you of their laws. You're never going to be free of those.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    If I am granted the Freedom to breath air, then I deny your Freedom to inhale the same air. If you are granted the Freedom to sneeze on my shoe, then I am denied the Freedom to have a spotless shoe.

    Does individual Freedom exist, or is it merely a catchphrase?


    Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. ~Abraham Lincoln
    Sure, it inherently exists due to our Free Will, but with that comes the ability to impose your Will on others... an attempt to place your Will above God's Will... which is that everyone should have Free Will...

    Also, are you saying that someone intentionally sneezed on your shoe? I don't think Freedom applies to accidental or natural occurrences... it is only applicable to humans because of our Free Will.

    I believe Ol' Abe was right.

  7. #27

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    Here's an interesting question- would you have more freedom or less if there were more or less government, law and/or social hierarchy? I have my own answers, but I'd like to hear your views.

  8. #28
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    Another comment on Freedom. The destruction of freedom and the objective of totalitarian and fascists governments is to destroying rational human thought and confidence in it... thus attaining power and why these governments have no belief in God... or anything holy.

    This is where America's strength lies as it is the only country founded on a Creed.

    Unfortunately, it did not take long for our government to be infiltrated and has long been in the hands of unconstitutional men... at least since Jekyll Island and the planning of the Federal Reserve System (created 1913)

    quote from part of Wikipedia talking about this:

    Forbes magazine founder Bertie Charles Forbes wrote several years later:

    Picture a party of the nation's greatest bankers stealing out of New York on a private railroad car under cover of darkness, stealthily riding hundred of miles South, embarking on a mysterious launch, sneaking onto an island deserted by all but a few servants, living there a full week under such rigid secrecy that the names of not one of them was once mentioned, lest the servants learn the identity and disclose to the world this strangest, most secret expedition in the history of American finance. I am not romancing; I am giving to the world, for the first time, the real story of how the famous Aldrich currency report, the foundation of our new currency system, was written... The utmost secrecy was enjoined upon all. The public must not glean a hint of what was to be done. Senator Aldrich notified each one to go quietly into a private car of which the railroad had received orders to draw up on an unfrequented platform. Off the party set. New York's ubiquitous reporters had been foiled... Nelson (Aldrich) had confided to Henry, Frank, Paul and Piatt that he was to keep them locked up at Jekyll Island, out of the rest of the world, until they had evolved and compiled a scientific currency system for the United States, the real birth of the present Federal Reserve System, the plan done on Jekyll Island in the conference with Paul, Frank and Henry... Warburg is the link that binds the Aldrich system and the present system together. He more than any one man has made the system possible as a working reality.
    Money and psychology have been used against us to suppress rational thought.

  9. #29
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by visaisahero View Post
    Here's an interesting question- would you have more freedom or less if there were more or less government, law and/or social hierarchy?
    Compared to where?

    I will say that when dealing with a larger population of people, and advanced technology, the maximum possible freedom is achieved through a certain amount of government. Too little, too much, results in scarce freedom. Incidentally freedom in a large society usually takes complex government, too, as simple government is likely to just because something totalitarian.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  10. #30
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Default Freedom...

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC8V8S_REhk][/youtube]

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