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  1. #11
    Kraken down on piracy Lux's Avatar
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    Not walking on a tightrope.
    "It is not length of life, but depth of life." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

    "Thought breeds thought." ~ Henry David Thoreau

  2. #12
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Always thought freedom was being unbound by obligations and responsibilities.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    If I am granted the Freedom to breath air, then I deny your Freedom to inhale the same air. If you are granted the Freedom to sneeze on my shoe, then I am denied the Freedom to have a spotless shoe.

    Does individual Freedom exist, or is it merely a catchphrase?


    Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. ~Abraham Lincoln
    Sure does, its a complete objective reality, no matter what you cut it or look at it individal sovereignty and personal freedom exist.

    I do believe in determinism, I dont believe its the opposite of freedom though, fatalism is. So determinism doesnt void freedom, neither does interdependence like that which you described.

    Suggesting that freedom is a catchphrase or nebulous concept because in practice its mitigated in different ways by competiting rights or expectations is a some what immature perspective if you ask me.

    It exhibits a lack of conscience, lack of internal inhibitors, either inability to or unwillingness to self-regulate emotions and behaviour to consider that anything short of a totalising abstraction isnt freedom. That's kind of a "psychotic contemplates freedom" thing, in reality psychotics dont contemplate in that way, they only reckon in a way which is in line with the games they play.

  4. #14
    Ginkgo
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    Or, rather, does Freedom come in the form of imposing the same standards on every individual - thus equalizing their opportunities? Even if there was complete political anarchy, we would still be bound by natural law.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    Always thought freedom was being unbound by obligations and responsibilities.
    Carefree? I'm not sure that's the same as being free per se but then I'm beginning to think freedom is a more multifaceted thing than I thought at the beginning of this thread.

  6. #16
    Black Magic Buzzard Kra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    If I am granted the Freedom to breath air, then I deny your Freedom to inhale the same air. If you are granted the Freedom to sneeze on my shoe, then I am denied the Freedom to have a spotless shoe.

    Does individual Freedom exist, or is it merely a catchphrase?


    Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. ~Abraham Lincoln
    Freedom, confined to a point in time, is based on opportunities.

    The philosophical notion of true freedom is rather irrelevant in this case, as it ceased to exist the moment you became bound by a definition, physical shell, or any other restriction. True freedom doesn't exist in a real or practical form.

    /philosophical regurgitation

    In a real application, I would say that my definition of freedom is personal responsibility. We are free to exact our will upon the world, but we must pay the price for doing so.
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  7. #17
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Carefree? I'm not sure that's the same as being free per se but then I'm beginning to think freedom is a more multifaceted thing than I thought at the beginning of this thread.
    I do believe it is the closest you'll get to freedom. I doubt the free man would have anything to care about in his life. The reason being is because he is free. That is why absolute freedom is impossible to achieve.

  8. #18
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    Don't bother with "what is _______?" questions. Nothing good will come of it.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    Or, rather, does Freedom come in the form of imposing the same standards on every individual - thus equalizing their opportunities? Even if there was complete political anarchy, we would still be bound by natural law.
    Nope, freedom as I understand it is less about opportunities than about reponsibilities, first and foremost to yourself, for instance if you dont do certain things for yourself no one else will.

    I think it is impossible to equalise opportunities, there isnt such a thing as equal talent, aptitude or competence, so equal opportunities would really cruel in practice for the inept, incompetent and untalented.

    Political anarchy is just the abscence of political authority, it wouldnt be the abscence of authority per se, less so the equalising of opportunity and I'm not sure about natural law, the idea has appeal but I tend to think that its a fallacy.

    If you make reference, as I do, to societies which have existed in recorded history with less or no political authority there has generally been some other mechanism at work, social class or status and the economic power, market power, traditional power that those things entail.

  10. #20
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    ...for instance if you dont do certain things for yourself no one else will.
    Like have a wank?

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