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  1. #81
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Nope. To confuse religion with ideology shows that you don't understand the nature of either. At best you can call ideologies "ersatz religions", but that involves a peversion of the nature of religions rather than it's authentic nature.
    Nice compartmentalized thinking. They're both memeplexes with the particular intention of social control. One involves spirituality, the other an appeal to universal principles. They're not different. You're missing the forest for the trees, as usual.

    It'd be nice if for once you could tell me something I didn't know. I've been studying military history since I was at least 8 years old.
    Too bad those lessons didn't stick with you.

    The motivations for war are varied depending on context. For example, the long-held theory claiming that the Crusades were primarily about second-born noblemen seeking wealth and land in far-away lands has now been discarded among scholars.
    And yet, the "reward in heaven" from a pilgrimage wasn't a desire for resources in some way? You're also generalizing far too much about "discarded among scholars", but then again, you do only consider the scholars you like to count, right?

    And who exactly do you care about, if I may ask?
    My family, my friends, the people who have helped me throughout life. If this country were in an existential crisis, I'd be the first to sign up. Since it's not going to be (see the above strategic deterrent), I really think projecting power to line some asshole's pockets are a gross misallocation of national resources.

  2. #82
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy
    It'd be nice if for once you could tell me something I didn't know. I've been studying military history since I was at least 8 years old.
    So you might very well have been significantly older than 8 when you started studying military history?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #83
    Reptilian Snuggletron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Why don't you go hang out in the middle east for a while then come back and tell us about your travels, hmm?
    I would if I had a reason to go there. And certainly there isn't much to do there as far as recreation goes, but I heard they do some pretty death-defying drifting over there in the Arabic Peninsula. Those Se doms, anyway.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adoamros View Post
    I would if I had a reason to go there.
    I'd just be more interested in your opinions after you've seen a bit of what actually goes on in the world.

    Btw, your garbage collector rant? Preaching to the choir. I believe that working class people deserve better treatment than they get. That being said, it's a lot safer to be a garbage man than to be a soldier in a time of war.

  5. #85
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I believe that working class people deserve better treatment than they get.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #86
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I believe that working class people deserve better treatment than they get.
    Well, then let's stop making it so, just to get by since we've outsourced all the well-paying jobs, they have to go off to some sandbox half a world away to get blown to pieces by an IED for some douchebag CEO's benefit.

  7. #87
    Reptilian Snuggletron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I'd just be more interested in your opinions after you've seen a bit of what actually goes on in the world.

    Btw, your garbage collector rant? Preaching to the choir. I believe that working class people deserve better treatment than they get. That being said, it's a lot safer to be a garbage man than to be a soldier in a time of war.
    the two have one big thing in common: They both signed up for the job.

    My point is, they're not heroes because of the risk involved in their job, they're heroes because of deeds they do besides their profession. If someone does a heroic thing while doing their job, good for them. You can't rule that all soldiers are heroes and deserving of respect because there are some bad eggs out there in soldier uniforms just like with any other profession.

  8. #88
    Senior Member Ruthie's Avatar
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    At the height of the war in Iraq, I worked on a campaign with a guy who had been injured in the fight and had a scar from his eye down to his chin. He had been completely against the war, but he had volunteered and served without complaint, and didn't let his personal opinions get in the way of doing his duty.

    The war was the big issue that cycle and occasionally a volunteer would say something ignorant, along the lines of equating U.S. soldiers to suicide bombers. All these activists who had been taught all their lives to value their own opinions, trust their own conclusions, etc... they dress it up as "obeying their consciences" and then deem themselves morally superior to the person who just loves their country and is willing to die for it.

  9. #89
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamine View Post
    Spamtar, that is a very curious question. My first thought (while I research whether or not those soldiers enlisted of their own will or were conscripted) is that once you dehumanize a group of people, by changing their perception from being humans to being monsters, it is easy for others to treat them with extreme cruelty. Look no further than the treatment of First Nations people when North America was being settled. Ignorance gives people permission to be cruel. This does not excuse the Holocaust. Absolutely not. It only seeks to try to explain how people who have the potential for incredible amounts of compassion acted only out of fear.

    I have no further opinions or thoughts on this matter because I have not spent enough time trying to understand their predicament.

    What do you think about it?
    I have mixed feelings on it. I guess it would have to be based on a case by case basis. The knowledge, intelligence and specific intent of the individual solder. Propaganda is a valuable military and political tool. I think a lot of the solders believed in the propaganda. Also from my understanding most German solders did not know of the final solution. At the same time the Germans were notorious for atrocious acts distinct from the final solution; especially on Russian citizenry.

    Modernly their is a theme in foreign policy where we ultimately blame the acts of the dictators and tyrants on the citizenry. Since the citizenry did not overthrow there government they are deemed culpable. This is how we (U.S) as a country justify dropping bombs on cities we know are inhabited by civilians.

    I tend to find in general (with exceptions) its not the individual solders fault. Its hard to find a clear dividing line in the sand on a general grouping of individuals simply identified as WWII German solders not to mention solders in general.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adoamros View Post
    the two have one big thing in common: They both signed up for the job.

    My point is, they're not heroes because of the risk involved in their job, they're heroes because of deeds they do besides their profession. If someone does a heroic thing while doing their job, good for them. You can't rule that all soldiers are heroes and deserving of respect because there are some bad eggs out there in soldier uniforms just like with any other profession.
    Of course some of them are shitheads. That's why I don't hang around military bases looking for dates...But seriously, it goes without saying! Just like there are bad cops, theiving firemen, etc.

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