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  1. #111
    Senior Member incubustribute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theaferist View Post
    I don't think that war is a solution, it's a hate not harmony, which is caused by war. And innocent people suffer, why do we need it? There's so much aggression and anger around us, why can't we avoid it?
    Ahh...so IYHO, we should have just called in a board meeting with Japan when they bombed Pearl Harbor?

  2. #112
    Senior Member Ethereal's Avatar
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    Personally, I do not feel that the title of hero should be given our so simply as registering for the army. Even at this stage, they are not all necessarily in the game to defend their country. Many are in it for cheaper educations, long term benefits, as a guaranteed well-paid job, and for many marines to legally kill. Many of these soldiers will never see combat (An Army ROTC officer I know told us that his job was to make sure missiles hit their target). Some number of these soldiers are bound to commit war crimes, and as some posts have pointed out, many will be perpetuating evil agendas. Many of course are in the military to serve their country.

    Whatever their reasons and actions, they are all still handing their livelihoods over to their respective governments, and for this they all deserve respect, lest they give reasons otherwise (war crimes and the like). Many can be considered heroes, but only after they have done something heroic. To bestow this title upon soldiers prematurely could be an ego booster and mixed message (somewhat like the lyrics in Metallica's Disposable Heroes).

    Also bear in mind the subjective aspects to soldiers. We consider WWII to be heroes, both during and after the war. Now then, how did the German and Japanese see their soldiers during the wars? Respect and support, yes, titles and praise, they should earn it...

  3. #113
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    It depends. Soldiers in Iraq, for example, aren't protecting our freedoms and rights and aren't necessarily fighting for a noble cause. So in that sense, they're not heroic. There have been many heroic acts that soldiers in Iraq took on to protect their comrades and they are heroes to each other, but in the greater sense, no. You can actually make the case that our presence in Iraq and the resulting civilian death toll is villainous. The Allies fighting the Nazis... more heroic.

  4. #114
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    The soldiers aren't making discretionary choices, the blame for actions taken by the military rests with the administration.

  5. #115
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    I hate when people blame soldiers for the orders they are FORCED to execute.

  6. #116
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I hate when people blame soldiers for the orders they are FORCED to execute.
    You're right - the problem is never the soldiers. It's always their idiotic officers, who are trained to see their men as nothing more than chess pieces on the battlefield.

  7. #117
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    No, its not the officers either.

    It's the people high enough up the chain that they are making discretionary decisions over what the military as an entity is doing.

    Think generals and up generally.

  8. #118
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    Er, no, not necessarily. But they are far more brave and selfless than me.

    But they sure can be heroes. My husband's grandfather was one of the soldiers in WWII who went into Dachau to free the Holocaust survivors. Can you even imagine? I guess he refused to talk about it- to anyone. I mean, here was this guy from Wisconsin who was a house painter, and then to encounter that... He was awarded a few purple hearts, but no one knows exactly why.

    And now his 18 yr old great-grandson is in Afghanistan. I don't think he'd be too pleased about that if he were alive.

  9. #119
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    You're right - the problem is never the soldiers. It's always their idiotic officers, who are trained to see their men as nothing more than chess pieces on the battlefield.
    Actually, most war crimes in places like Iraq and Afghanistan are not done under orders. Like convicted gang-raping by US soldiers in Iraq.

  10. #120
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    So the acts of a few soldiers incriminate the many?

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