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Thread: Wtf, military

  1. #51
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    I think you're both pretty immature and idealistic.

  2. #52
    Senior Member run's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I think you're both pretty immature and idealistic.
    Ok

  3. #53
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I think you're both pretty immature and idealistic.
    Yes, and probably weak.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  4. #54
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    Choosing to not experience something is your choice. But it's hard to make an informed decision on a subject that you have no experience with, other than the dubious information doled out by mass media, and a few acquaintances.



    Quote Originally Posted by run View Post

    I don't get what you mean about finding your own sense of worth and sense of self. We have it already.


    When you say "We", do you mean humanity in general? If so, I have to disagree with you on that. I don't believe most people do. At least in a positive sense.
    Are you basing your self worth and sense of self, entirely on what other people around you say about you? Or is your sense of worth and self, internally derived, from your experiences with the world?

  5. #55
    Senior Member Ruthie's Avatar
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    I remember reading that boot camp became "intense" because the ratio of soldiers actually shooting to kill the enemy was extremely low (soldiers would fire in the air or at the ground). Around the mid-century, they tried to fix that problem by working to break down soldiers at boot camp - making them "killing machines." That may sound bad to the sensitive, but it was necessary, and an army that shoots in the air is pretty useless. Maybe someone with more knowledge of military history can tell me if I'm remembering that correctly.

    I was actually just thinking about this today, but sometimes I wish I had joined the military. I often feel a real pull to serve my country, and Lord knows, I could've used the discipline...

  6. #56
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruthie View Post
    I remember reading that boot camp became "intense" because the ratio of soldiers actually shooting to kill the enemy was extremely low (soldiers would fire in the air or at the ground). Around the mid-century, they tried to fix that problem by working to break down soldiers at boot camp - making them "killing machines." That may sound bad to the sensitive, but it was necessary, and an army that shoots in the air is pretty useless. Maybe someone with more knowledge of military history can tell me if I'm remembering that correctly.

    I was actually just thinking about this today, but sometimes I wish I had joined the military. I often feel a real pull to serve my country, and Lord knows, I could've used the discipline...
    Yes that is true. They did a statistic in Vietnam where they found it took an average of something like 50,000 rounds fired by US soldiers for every Vietnamese killed. People were firing int he air, at the ground, and just generally intentionally missing. For comparison, for Marine snipers I believe it was 1.13 rounds fired per vietnamese killed. Modern army training focuses far more on instilling the idea of "I see a threat, I shoot it now!" type reactions. Read David Grossmann's "On Killing" for more information, he was military and either a historian or psychologist.

  7. #57
    Senior Member Ruthie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott N Denver View Post
    Yes that is true. They did a statistic in Vietnam where they found it took an average of something like 50,000 rounds fired by US soldiers for every Vietnamese killed. People were firing int he air, at the ground, and just generally intentionally missing. For comparison, for Marine snipers I believe it was 1.13 rounds fired per vietnamese killed. Modern army training focuses far more on instilling the idea of "I see a threat, I shoot it now!" type reactions. Read David Grossmann's "On Killing" for more information, he was military and either a historian or psychologist.
    50,000 rounds per kill? Unbelievable...

  8. #58
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    To be honest this is exactly why US loses wars when enemy is not visible/obvious.

    For example : Vietnam , war on drugs, war on terror to name some.


    I mean I can't understand that people at the Pentagon haven't figured out that the "brainwashing" is no longer effective. The modern warfare is simply too complicated for you allow yourself to get into position where you have "drones" in the field.

    Which is because there is too much options and scenarios when you fight modern guerilla. What means that a mindset of a avarage American soldier is unadapted to conditions in the field. (for the most part)

    Especially since you are only adding additional stress to you troops with methods mentioned. Plus you are not giving them any real advantage in "battle". Especially since the concept of battle is obsolete. The only thing you are doing with this is giving you enemiies the advantage.


    On the other hand US is so certain in its military superiority that it is no longer objective in estimating its actual military strenght. What means that every unsuccess will have huge emotional cost. Not to mention that this actaully rises the chance of unsuccess.


    I am sorry guys but your county sucks at mind games towards my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by run View Post
    It's never ok to treat someone like that. They can accomplish their task without that. No, I don't know why they do that.
    Actually it is a well established technique for generating esprit de corps. A lot of folks, including me, have survived such treatment and come out of it feeling proud of themselves. This is one of those areas where, if you haven't been there/done that, it is hard to understand.

  10. #60
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    To be honest this is exactly why US loses wars when enemy is not visible/obvious.

    For example : Vietnam , war on drugs, war on terror to name some.


    I mean I can't understand that people at the Pentagon haven't figured out that the "brainwashing" is no longer effective. The modern warfare is simply too complicated for you allow yourself to get into position where you have "drones" in the field.

    Which is because there is too much options and scenarios when you fight modern guerilla. What means that a mindset of a avarage American soldier is unadapted to conditions in the field. (for the most part)

    Especially since you are only adding additional stress to you troops with methods mentioned. Plus you are not giving them any real advantage in "battle". Especially since the concept of battle is obsolete. The only thing you are doing with this is giving you enemiies the advantage.


    On the other hand US is so certain in its military superiority that it is no longer objective in estimating its actual military strenght. What means that every unsuccess will have huge emotional cost. Not to mention that this actaully rises the chance of unsuccess.


    I am sorry guys but your county sucks at mind games towards my opinion.
    You're assuming the objective is something other than making a metric shitton of cash for defense companies.

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