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  1. #21
    Senior Member Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    OK don't know enough about US politics, but from the outside looking in.... a black man making it into the Whitehouse is worthy of this award. The sheer levels of predudice he's likely to have endured on the path to get their. The message that this sends out to America and the rest of the globe. To not note it as something worth is to lack respect for the lack of equality.

    I was massively touched by Halle Berries winning of the Oscars a few years back, and how the other contestants responded to this.... for her the award was HUGE, it was't just saying she was a talented actress, it was saying that she, a balck women was the first person to break the prejudice. It was one of the most moving things I've seen - such a huge impact.

    I appreciate that on face value it may seem like Obama has done nothing, but in reality he has scaled mount everest and that is worth of praise.
    Racism is a two-way street. It can be used to shoot someone down, or it can also easily be used to discredit critics (which is what's happening right now), and can also be used as a claim to greatness in having to overcome it. Whether or not they had to truly overcome anything is another matter, they still have that air to them. Furthermore, it's not the color of the skin, its whose behind the figure, and Obama has some powerful forces behind him.

    And yeah, the peace prize has pretty much lost it's value, and Obama winning it is the proverbial last nail in the coffin, the flushing of the toilet, and the pulling of the trigger of the award's last bit of dignity.

  2. #22
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Isaac View Post
    How is it sending a message to America when Americans are the ones that elected him?

    When is the UK going to elect someone that is not white Prime Minister?
    I don't dissagree with the bolded bit... there isn't a lot of cadadtes in the UK system, so dont' knwo when it will happen but it will happen. We did put a women in office for a wee while


    As for sending a message to America, I was frankly quite scandalised by the racisim I obsevered when I was there in 2000. There was senior managers in a very bright organisation who were not totally racisit but near as damit. I was horrified, I don't see that type of thing in the UK - maybe because of beign in a bigger city... and thats not to say racisim doesn't happen in the more educted groups, but you'd think twice about the person verbalising it.

    There are a lot of issues about his election that is good for the world beyond the last paragraph, and I serious was shocked by what I experienced. Havng a president elected in the US send signals to the world about racial acceptance - the US has wealth from natural resources, what they do politically and how they behave in an internally comunity has much wider ramification than just domestic policy stuff.

  3. #23
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Racism is a two-way street. It can be used to shoot someone down, or it can also easily be used to discredit critics (which is what's happening right now), and can also be used as a claim to greatness in having to overcome it. Whether or not they had to truly overcome anything is another matter, they still have that air to them. Furthermore, it's not the color of the skin, its whose behind the figure, and Obama has some powerful forces behind him.

    And yeah, the peace prize has pretty much lost it's value, and Obama winning it is the proverbial last nail in the coffin, the flushing of the toilet, and the pulling of the trigger of the award's last bit of dignity.
    I hear you, but it can still be a huge barrier to acheivment.

    In the UK we have a TV show called the X factor, in order for a black person to win, they do have to be significantly better. The talents need to over rise the race barrier.

    10 years go the world partied on the eve of the millenium, I was at a house party and we had a party, we all curled up on sofas nursign come downs and watch the world clean up after the party. The TV cameras had been sweeping around the globe all evening and continutes with the cleaning up after the party .......my friend (who is Zimbabwain - white haven't left the country as a child) observed there was not one wite face amoung them.... that's only 10 years ago... So yes it is a huge political acheivment, worthy of accolade.


    Women born 5 years before I was broke the glass celining in business, I take the benefit from that that toll, that labour, that sheer loody determination, women born 5 years after me, take it forgranted.

    I appericate that there are a lot of issues, but breaking ground is worthy of note for real acheivment on equality issues

  4. #24
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    I don't think Obama got it because he's Obama.

    I think Obama got it because he was voted on a platform of Anti Bush

    If we voted for Jay Leno on an Anti Bush platform, Jay Leno would be getting the Nobel Prize.

    and yeah, I agree with what Tinkerbell said too. well... hmm now i can't decide between what i said and what she said. prolly both i guess.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Dooraven's Avatar
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    The Nobel Prize has gone a dowhill steep ever since it was created. From Rewarding people like Mandela and people who actually deserved it to awarding people like Kissinger/Arafat/Rabin. It has gone from a prize of substance to a prize of promises.

    But how is it Obama's fault that he has won this prize, the fault belongs with the Nobel Prize Committee and no further. I find it highly amusing that this is still being dragged on and on by Obama's critics, its not really going to change anything.

    Also, does anyone else find it odd that the descendants of the maurading vikings are the ones handing out the peace prize :rolli
    Not sure how to respond to this so I'll ask if this was serious?

    The wars Obama's predecessors started are still being continued, contrary to his significant promises on the campaign trail. The justification for these wars was questionable to begin with, and the activities, such as the torture, domestic spying, and secret renditions that followed were even more so.
    Iraq is nearly out of America's hands. Troop withdrawal is going to start so he's pretty much kept his promises that he made on the campaign trail.

    If you paid any attention to him during the Campaign he promised that he will continue the war in Afghanistan, he called Iraq a misleading war while Afghanistan totally justified. So I don't see how he has broken any promises here.
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  6. #26
    Member Chuckums's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    As for sending a message to America, I was frankly quite scandalised by the racisim I obsevered when I was there in 2000. There was senior managers in a very bright organisation who were not totally racisit but near as damit. I was horrified,
    Seriously, you must have been hanging out with American democrats. They are the most racist people I have ever met. American liberals overtly put much positive emphasis on someones race, creed, color or religion in order to compensate for the guilt of thier true beliefs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooraven View Post
    Iraq is nearly out of America's hands. Troop withdrawal is going to start so he's pretty much kept his promises that he made on the campaign trail.
    The promise was- troops out of Iraq by August of this year- however, Iraq was pacified while the Repubs were in office. I was there-what the BBC was telling you were mostly leftist lies, twisted to further the socialist agenda.

  7. #27
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Isaac View Post
    Seriously, you must have been hanging out with American democrats. They are the most racist people I have ever met. American liberals overtly put much positive emphasis on someones race, creed, color or religion in order to compensate for the guilt of thier true beliefs.
    Could be, to be honest I was really shocked/scandalised by it, they were well educated/leader type people - such brutal narrow mindedness.

    To me it's not really about the US politics more breaking prejudice barriers, it's worthy, properly worthy and bleeding well ought to be paid attention to by the world.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dooraven View Post
    The Nobel Prize has gone a dowhill steep ever since it was created. From Rewarding people like Mandela and people who actually deserved it to awarding people like Kissinger/Arafat/Rabin. It has gone from a prize of substance to a prize of promises.

    But how is it Obama's fault that he has won this prize, the fault belongs with the Nobel Prize Committee and no further. I find it highly amusing that this is still being dragged on and on by Obama's critics, its not really going to change anything.



    Not sure how to respond to this so I'll ask if this was serious?



    Iraq is nearly out of America's hands. Troop withdrawal is going to start so he's pretty much kept his promises that he made on the campaign trail.

    If you paid any attention to him during the Campaign he promised that he will continue the war in Afghanistan, he called Iraq a misleading war while Afghanistan totally justified. So I don't see how he has broken any promises here.
    It was an attempt at a joke.

    As for war promises, both the Iraq War and the Afghan war are part of the larger War on Terror. In this context, he made many promises. During the campaign he was against the Patriot Act, now he is expanding it. He declared the shut down of Guantanamo Bay, but continues the policy of secret detention. He made all kinds of Iraq promises, and troops haven't been withdrawn, they've been replaced with contractors, which is even worse from lack of accountability. And he said he would withdraw troops immediately upon taking office, and when he took office he kept delaying it.

    And the Nobel committee nominated and awarded Obama with the Peace Prize either to encourage him to take a peaceful route, or to cover for his actions by giving an aura of peace to him. Either way its wrong...

  9. #29
    Member Chuckums's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    He made all kinds of Iraq promises, and troops haven't been withdrawn, they've been replaced with contractors, which is even worse from lack of accountability.
    If I may expand on this- During the Bush administration, the use of contractors was pushed by the leftists as one of the detrimental aspects of the war. Hello? Now they are using them even more?

    They are plagiarizing the Republican War on Terror playbook (The Irony!) and a good part of the population is so ignorant, they do not notice this?

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    Indeed. I'm quite happy to see The Obamantion grouped with Kissinger & Arafat. They belong together, somewhere in hell...
    I believe that Kissinger and Arafat both had good intentions when they made the sacrifices they had to make to play the roles they chose to play. It's a massive responsibility without reasonable compensation. Could you have done a better job in any of their shoes? Who are we to judge, with hindsight in our favour? Why be so quick to demonize good men who had the guts, will and determination to try and make life better for their people? They're not heaven-sent angels, but ordinary men.

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