User Tag List

First 23456 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 65

  1. #31
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,787

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    No, he's too busy working to provide the benefits of society you consume while spending your time navel-gazing. How's knowing what or where Mt. Olympus is going to help put food on your table?
    While trying to prove how sympathetic you are to the workers conditions while being a navel-gazer yourself, you run into an overrated and boring cliché. Being busy has nothing to do with living "open-eyed": Mt. Olympus is common knowledge, he doesn't need to have a PhD to hear about it. Being part of the working class doesn't necessarily equate to being close-minded, you dishonor intelligent and curious blue-collars with these stereotypes.

    Besides, more and more automatization enables more and more free thinkers and less people who have to do the "dirty work".

  2. #32
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    2,934

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    i always wondered why being "cultured" means things like French art, Renaissance art, etc...

    what about Navajo, Peruvian, or some long lost tribal art in the Amazon? In the end, isn't "cultural" art just about the status of that civilization? What really makes following one " chic culture" better than following some " long lost culture"?
    Actually, the two events are linked.

    The French were the first amongst the West to notice and understand that so-called "uncivilized" native people (whether Indian-American, African or Polynesian) had a notion of Art.

    For instance, when the first Blues artists and Jazzmen came to Paris, they were immediately celebrated as geniuses. The French "high" culture quickly integrated what they brought with them (just check Debussy, for instance).
    And when you look at the lives of Cubist painters, they often had extensive collections of African art and statues.

    White Anglo-Saxon culture only recognized this obvious fact decades after, and not before the 40'es (in the best cases). The reason (amongst countless others) probably was that Anglo-Saxon societies (whether British or American) were deeply non-egalitarian, materialistic and based on a strict social, hierarchical and cultural order (despite anything you can hear about the "American Dream": it's a total myth). I mean: in Anglo-Saxon societies of the early XXth century, more than everywhere else compared to another Western country, your probable achievements during your lifetime were first determined by your appearance, origin, race, and social background.

    ---

    Thus, I'd say it's not only a question of snobbery, about who is "chic" or not. It's probably far more complex, because as many sociologists showed it (for instance, Pierre Bourdieu), individual taste is almost always linked to Identity (And hence, as Magic Poriferan mentioned, to social class). This is the theory of Cultural capital.

    ->Cultural capital - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

  3. #33
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    6,707

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    While trying to prove how sympathetic you are to the workers conditions while being a navel-gazer yourself, you run into an overrated and boring cliché. Being busy has nothing to do with living "open-eyed": Mt. Olympus is common knowledge, he doesn't need to have a PhD to hear about it. Being part of the working class doesn't necessarily equate to being close-minded, you dishonor intelligent and curious blue-collars with these stereotypes.

    Besides, more and more automatization enables more and more free thinkers and less people who have to do the "dirty work".
    I don't know, a lot of "culture" exposure seems to be just dumb luck if you're not in an area that holds it to particularly high esteem.

    I mean, when I was little I liked to know about myth, so I devoured every Greek myth I could get my hands on. I may remember a lot about Olympus, some of Gilgamesh and a couple stray Egyptian things, I never learned about Navajo or Inca or Chinese or anything like that. That's because my knowledge of myth is old, read back when I was about ten years old, and mostly picked up from books that people got for me as gifts.

    I know about composers because my mother was a music history major and I'm a musician myself, but I know absolutely nothing about painters. I've read The Mayor of Casterbridge but I've never read The Canterbury Tales and my knowledge of Dickens is limited to A Christmas Carol. For those of us who are apparently "cultured," really look at why -- was it because you've had so much intellectual curiosity from a very young age, or was it because someone was there to get you interested or perhaps purely by chance that it was a part of your school's curriculum?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  4. #34
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    2,934

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Or, well, if you're talking about "high" culture, Americans have that too. They're just very good at hiding it.
    Actually, I think the milieu you can find in the American universities (1) probably is the most "cultured" you could ever find on Earth, in 2009. And by far.

    The American domination over intellectual matters and "high culture" is simply outstanding. But the fact is that 99.9% of the "standard American citizen" just ignores it, or won't understand what I'm just talking about.

    The American high culture is as outstanding as it is elitist... and well, well hidden for the masses.

    ---

    (1) I mean universities like Colombia, Cornell, Yale, Princeton, Harvard, Berkeley, the MIT, and so on. They represent less than 10% of the available universities, but they are way, way ahead from the others.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

  5. #35
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    2,934

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    For those of us who are apparently "cultured," really look at why -- was it because you've had so much intellectual curiosity from a very young age, or was it because someone was there to get you interested or perhaps purely by chance that it was a part of your school's curriculum?
    Both.

    And you forgot your family's background, perhaps the most decisive factor: more than your school's curriculum, for instance.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

  6. #36
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    6,707

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    (1) I mean universities like Colombia, Cornell, Yale, Princeton, Harvard, Berkeley, the MIT, and so on. They represent less than 10% of the available universities, but they are way, way ahead from the others.
    Representing "less than 10%" of the Universities in the US seems like a moot point considering the GIGANTICALLY HUGE number of universities in the United States. I also think you're forgetting about many state land-grant universities. In the Midwest, there are three state schools with huge music programs, like at the University of Indiana -- it's strange because you drive hours and hours through the middle of nowhere and into this little town, only to find a huge, acoustically excellent concert hall and people who know how to use it.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  7. #37
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,787

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    I don't know, a lot of "culture" exposure seems to be just dumb luck if you're not in an area that holds it to particularly high esteem.
    The more people consider said cultural reference part of the general knowledge, the less this is applicable. In our case with Mt. Olympus... well, I don't think I have to explain.
    As for "The Canterbury Tales" - you still know how to place the book in a bigger picture, you still have a superficial knowledge of its contents despite the fact that you didn't read it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    For those of us who are apparently "cultured," really look at why -- was it because you've had so much intellectual curiosity from a very young age, or was it because someone was there to get you interested or perhaps purely by chance that it was a part of your school's curriculum?
    Both. Though if I'm not intellectually curious, lessons and circumstances won't help. And if I'm curious enough, I'll learn things desite of being handicapped.

  8. #38
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    2,934

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    In the Midwest, there are three state schools with huge music programs, like at the University of Indiana -- it's strange because you drive hours and hours through the middle of nowhere and into this little town, only to find a huge, acoustically excellent concert hall and people who know how to use it.
    You know, even Cornell university is located in the middle of nowhere, in a small town hours and hours away from the next "true" city.

    Yet it's one of the Mecca of Knowledge.

    ---

    America is a bit like that. You can discover incredible museums, collections of Monet, Matisse and Braque hours and hours away from civilization, in the middle of a rural farmland.

    You have intellectual jewels hidden everywhere (even in the middle of Texas), yet they're very discreet because they often despise the mass-media system.

    Same country, two different planets.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

  9. #39
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    6,707

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    You know, even Cornell university is located in the middle of nowhere, in a small town hours and hours away from the next "true" city.

    Yet it's one of the Mecca of Knowledge.

    ---

    America is a bit like that. You can discover incredible museums, collections of Monet, Matisse and Braque hours and hours away from civilization, in the middle of a rural farmland.

    You have intellectual jewels hidden everywhere (even in the middle of Texas), yet they're very discreet because they often despise the mass-media system.

    Same country, two different planets.
    And this is why roadtripping is so integral to American culture. If you just flew from one side to the other, you'd never see what's there to see.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  10. #40
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    2,934

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    And this is why roadtripping is so integral to American culture. If you just flew from one side to the other, you'd never see what's there to see.
    Exactly!

    When I was 20, I made a road tour quite similar to the one you described. But believe me, my Holy Grail wasn't the "mythical" road 66 or the Gas station's Taco bells.

    Museums, natural parks (1), universities, museums, natural parks, universities... and so on, and so on... from East to the west, from north to south, and vice versa...

    That's why I will always avoid LA or Las Vegas, or only when I have no other options left.

    ---

    (1) Remember I'm a botanist!
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

Similar Threads

  1. Colorful Sayings/Quotes
    By ladypinkington in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 05-10-2010, 06:28 PM
  2. Americans--care to be my cultural interpreter?
    By Usehername in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 11-18-2009, 11:09 PM
  3. Words of Wisdom, Inspiring Quotes, etc
    By rivercrow in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 11-21-2008, 06:39 PM
  4. [MBTItm] Quote on Intution
    By heart in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 07-15-2007, 01:28 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO