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  1. #21
    almost half a doctor phoenix13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Of course, I'm talking about recent warming. Does your lecture even contest the theory that current warming rates are related to the increasing presence of the greenhouse gases in the atmosphere (at a level probably never before seen on the planet) due to the greenhouse effect?
    Gee, I don't know... Maybe you should WATCH IT!!!

    It's not my theory. I did not come up with it, and am not personally invested in it.

    I do think, however, that so much of what is presented in the news is given without context. The context I'm refering to is trends of warming and cooling for as long as we think humans have been on earth, and indeed, hundreds of thousands of years before it. Granted, the trends sound much more significant and interesting when viewed in isolation, and make for a better read, but it doesn't equip the reader with the context to understand its significance, which I find misleading. I have a tendency to write loooooooooooong sentences. I hope it made sense.

    "OMG I FEEEEEEEEEL SO INTENSELY ABOUT EVERYTHING OMG OMG OMG GET ME A XANAX" -Priam (ENFP impersonation)

  2. #22
    almost half a doctor phoenix13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Do your use your scepticism always one way?

    In University, 15 years ago, I remember my favorite subject was (indirectly) global warming, as I studied epiphytic plants of the high Himalayas, and the way they seemed to adapt to climate change. Years after years, after having been in Sikkim at least three times, I've noticed the tropical glaciers were rapidly shrinking, and I wasn't the only one to see the trend.

    In 15 years of my existence, I have read dozens, and dozens, and dozens of papers on that subject, about the CO2 cycle, how it is absorbed, how it affects plants and hence, global climate. So frankly, I'm tired to say the same things over and over and over and over gain, and to people that will anyway never really listen, especially because they follow a political agenda. It's a waste of time. And besides, English is not my native language: it makes things even longer and more painful to explain.

    There is a 99% consensus amongst climatologists. How can you pretend you haven't chosen a side? Either you're:

    (a) incredibly stupid,
    (b) totally ignorant,
    (c) either you are trying to convert the average reader to your (lost) cause, to spread doubts when there is in fact almost none.
    (d) you like conspiracy theories -Ie: convince us that it's the Jews and the CIA that are responsible for the 11/09 events-

    Frankly, I don't see the purpose of this thread. Or rather, I see it, I'm not that naive.
    You may call that an argument from authority, and you would probably be right about it, but frankly, I don't care. Have you seen the huge number of threads here, that spread the same lies, the same misinformation over, and over, and over again, just for the sake of a pathetic political gain -this has nothing to do with Science-?

    I'm not going to bother with what my hidden agendas or opinions are, because I can't prove anything and they are irrelevant.

    Now, an alternate explanation was presented in the lecture for the shrinking glaciers, one based on temperature. Having taken a course on it, what did you think?

    "OMG I FEEEEEEEEEL SO INTENSELY ABOUT EVERYTHING OMG OMG OMG GET ME A XANAX" -Priam (ENFP impersonation)

  3. #23
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix13 View Post
    I'm not going to bother with what my hidden agendas or opinions are, because I can't prove anything and they are irrelevant.

    Now, an alternate explanation was presented in the lecture for the shrinking glaciers, one based on temperature. Having taken a course on it, what did you think?
    Lectures are one thing. Scientific papers with rigorous statistical analysis are another.

  4. #24
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix13 View Post
    Gee, I don't know... Maybe you should WATCH IT!!!
    Asking people to make a 1+ hour commitment to watch a random lecture is kind of a stretch.

    How about committing to a few bullet points first? At least sum it up for us. Please.

  5. #25
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix13 View Post
    It's not my theory. I did not come up with it, and am not personally invested in it.

    I do think, however, that so much of what is presented in the news is given without context. The context I'm refering to is trends of warming and cooling for as long as we think humans have been on earth, and indeed, hundreds of thousands of years before it. Granted, the trends sound much more significant and interesting when viewed in isolation, and make for a better read, but it doesn't equip the reader with the context to understand its significance, which I find misleading. I have a tendency to write loooooooooooong sentences. I hope it made sense.


    When you look at the long-term trends, we've have been taken off that regular course starting around the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, due to the greenhouse effect.

  6. #26
    almost half a doctor phoenix13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Schnitzel View Post
    My point was that you were misrepresenting physicists. Young and Newton had models that worked and they were both right. Light is a particle and a wave. They both also made contributions to fluid dynamics, the field that describes weather phenomena. The basic climate science was worked out over a hundred years ago. As we see the globe is heating up and pollution is a major problem. CO2 emissions have been proven to cause climate change. The degree in which they do is unknown but you're not posing the question that way.
    Yes, light behaves like a particle and a wave. My only point was that during Newton's time, people who thought light was a wave were dismissed as idiots. During Young's time, those who thought light was a particle were similarly dismissed. Today, anyone who questions or argues against a global warming CRISIS is dismissed as an idiot. I'm trying not to be this way and instead listen to anything I can get my hands on.

    Now, for climate science. Yes, CO2 emissions cause climate change. Yes the globe is heating up. Yes pollution is a major problem, as is habitat destruction. What I am questioning is the notion of a CRISIS, and the notion that the changes we are now experiencing are unique, or unusual, or of epic proportions never before seen.

    I am indeed interested in just how much CO2 affects the climate. CO2 has been so obsessed over in isolation, that it concerns me. This is an intuitive concern, and not specific. You see, things are usually complicated, and require a multi faceted approach. To decrease emissions of one gas in the atmosphere, there is a high risk of unintended consequences on the other factors contributing to global warming directly or indirectly. If that other factor is a bigger player in climate change, we will have screwed ourselves over. Hopefully you can extract the general concept from that mumbo jumbo.

    "OMG I FEEEEEEEEEL SO INTENSELY ABOUT EVERYTHING OMG OMG OMG GET ME A XANAX" -Priam (ENFP impersonation)

  7. #27
    almost half a doctor phoenix13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Grande Muffin View Post
    1 hour 35 mins of magnificent conglomerate sponsored frothing at the mouth pseudo scientific gibberish make it us as we go along..imo

    I have consulted the label on the back on my tomato sauce bottle and disagree

    Firstly let me say the earth climate varies, greatly and wildly over x no of hundreds/1000s of years to blips little ice age....without stating the obvious in orbital variations, heat sink effects, wrong interpretation of sat data - which was later corrected, therms running amok in the oceans
    fortunate, or unfortunate we are probably entering a period of global cooling - most likely due to the extended solar minimum - well out with its mean variation and thank the gods

    If you take something like mother earth add mount toba..or yellowstone and spew forth an unhealthy balance of any substance then the equilibrium is quite frankly going to be upset

    Any complex model has much variation and seeks balance

    *slipper note thats the worst climate speech i listen too and thank you for sharing it.

    i cant be bother typing lots, and adjourn for an ice lolly

    I like to think myself a poet, but I have absolutely no idea what you just wrote. Could you retype that in the most plain boring english possible?

    "OMG I FEEEEEEEEEL SO INTENSELY ABOUT EVERYTHING OMG OMG OMG GET ME A XANAX" -Priam (ENFP impersonation)

  8. #28
    almost half a doctor phoenix13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ergophobe View Post
    Please share these scientific articles. I did not present any assumptions - these are widely known critiques of Monckton.
    George Monbiot: This is a dazzling debunking of climate change science. It is also wildly wrong | Comment is free | The Guardian



    What is this substantial scientific background?
    What are these peer-reviewed articles he's written?
    Do present whenever. I'd be glad to take a look.

    A quick search on scholar.google.com revealed one article that wasn't a commentary. This is it in the American Physical Society Forum:
    APS Physics | FPS | Climate Sensitivity Reconsidered
    Here is the statement that precedes the article:
    Climate Sensitivity Reconsidered
    By Christopher Monckton of Brenchley




    So, the one scientific place willing to publish his "article" posted a statement clarifying their position first which is clearly not in line with his. Nice.

    Present evidence, not opinion and present the sources directly so we can examine them for ourselves. We have enough opinions flying about here.... Thanks.
    Thank you for taking the time to look all that up and type it out. These are good points you raise, and the type that will take me some time to look up (I have to watch the lecture again, find the studies, and then research the guy himself). Unfortunately, I've got 6 exams coming up in the next week, so you will have to wait another week.

    Now, worst case scenario. The guy has dementia and is psychotic. Guess what. A GOOD SCIENTIST WILL LISTEN TO ANYTHING ONCE. That doesn't mean they will agree to anything, or that they won't take his background into account during deliberation, but his credentials should not be a block to listening in the first place. That's really the basis of dialogue on this thread, and the reason I'm pushing people to watch the lecture.

    "OMG I FEEEEEEEEEL SO INTENSELY ABOUT EVERYTHING OMG OMG OMG GET ME A XANAX" -Priam (ENFP impersonation)

  9. #29
    almost half a doctor phoenix13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post


    When you look at the long-term trends, we've have been taken off that regular course starting around the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, due to the greenhouse effect.
    WATCH THE LECTURE!!! I'm pushing you to watch it, because he presents a lot of these arguments and then rebuts them. I find many of the rebuttals reasonable, and I want to know why they might not be/ why I am mistaken.

    He presents that graph and how it was made. It is on par with the statistical tricks that were revealed in those recent leaked emails.

    "OMG I FEEEEEEEEEL SO INTENSELY ABOUT EVERYTHING OMG OMG OMG GET ME A XANAX" -Priam (ENFP impersonation)

  10. #30
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Asking people to make a 1+ hour commitment to watch a random lecture is kind of a stretch.

    How about committing to a few bullet points first? At least sum it up for us. Please.
    Trust me it is pontless to bother with this video since this has very little to do with science. Plus there is a waaaayyyy too much emotional manipulation in the persetation to take it seriously. (if you are a critical thinker)


    In some cases I even got the impression that the guy is contradicting himself or that the graphs don't actaully show what he is saying.


    Plus it is obvious that he doesn't know how biosphere actuallly works.



    You are not missing anything in my opinion.

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