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  1. #151
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Times have changed. The second amendment does not seem to be able to achieve the writers of the constitutions had in mind for it.
    Stupidest shit I've ever heard. You don't disregard an Amendment because its "old" or because" times have changed". You want it repealed? Start a petition.

    Maybe one day cops will beat your ass for speaking your mind, and when you complain, the court will say "times have changed". Maybe then you'll realize what a dumbass statement you've just made.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  2. #152
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Times have changed. The second amendment does not seem to be able to achieve the writers of the constitutions had in mind for it.



    Hah, well you don't need guns to do that. So I guess you need to maintain the second amendment strictly on principle then?
    It has had a strong effect in our country merely being on the Bill of Rights. Many states allow its citizens to have guns based on such principles raised in the Bill of Rights.

    What the original writers intent is an important aspect but not the sole aspect of the validity of the right.

    Yes "rights" should in general be maintained on principle, not necessarily strictly on principle alone. If we continue to fail to preserve those rights, regardless if by gun, assembly and/or pen, they willl be lost. They will be another legacy of loss liberty we can pass to the next generation.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  3. #153
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I wasn't aware you were a certified expert on legislative intent?
    I think most of us would agree here that the second amendment was written with the idea that citizens should be able to defend themselves against corrupt government. As an added note, Hamilton felt it also made for a nice militia to accompany the official army.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    What makes you say that?
    At this point in time, I'd say the chances of anyone bother to rebel or extremely small, and if anyone did bother to, their chances of succeeding would be equally small. When you demand to keep the right to bare arms, you are like someone refusing to sell an appliance you never use.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    The Constitution lists rights, not policies. Rights don't become privileges over time.
    They do as soon as the most powerful political force of the time decides they do. The rights themselves were put down by men who had the chance only because they militarily won a rebelion.

    As for me, I think in terms of cost/benefit analysis, and my goal is prosperity. I take or leave rights based on how they serve that end. If one stops serving that end, I would not only accept getting rid of it, I'd advise it.
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  4. #154
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    Read the quote from justice souter in my sig...

  5. #155
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I think most of us would agree here that the second amendment was written with the idea that citizens should be able to defend themselves against corrupt government. As an added note, Hamilton felt it also made for a nice militia to accompany the official army.
    And also that Americans have individual rights. Shocking concept?
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

  6. #156
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    And also that Americans have individual rights. Shocking concept?
    That's what all of the rights are for, not the second specifically.

    On that note, consider the irony of a central authority making official what invididual rights you get to have and don't.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  7. #157
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Post deleted, irrelevant content to American Gun Control topic...
    Last edited by Halla74; 12-08-2009 at 11:13 PM.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  8. #158
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    What I was trying to get across with the brackets, was that the common culprits for calculated attacks (gangs, crazies etcetera) are careful enough that having a gun won't help. Definitely not help as much as running away as fast as you can will, and then getting the necessary help.
    Gangs are not just a bunch of crazies. They are criminal enterprises for profit. They calculate risk vs rewards just like any other successful business.

    Calculated implies determined, determined implies that they'll attack you when you are vulnerable. Everyone is vulnerable at some point on a daily basis.
    True, there are crazies out there who do not care for consequences, and even presidents get assassinated. But if we can't prevent 100% of all violence, doesn't mean we should just throw our hands in their and be at the mercy of circumstances.

    Again, only a very small minority of murders, rapes and assaults are calculated, excluding gang crime. They are usually spur of the moment, with little (rational) thought as to the consequences.
    I really don't know what you base these "majority" statements on...

    Utility of the individual too, as society is a collection of individuals. By Utility I mean quality of life and productiveness.

    I can't really debate against "it's an individual's right", though. Too arbitrary.
    Does Bill of Rights seem so arbitrary to you?
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  9. #159
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Post deleted, irrelevant content to American Gun Control topic...
    Last edited by Halla74; 12-08-2009 at 11:13 PM.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  10. #160
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    I want my own Nuke dammit!
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

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