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  1. #1

    Default Self-Control in the UK

    Kind of an off shoot from the gun control thread.

    The issue of gun control or any weapons ownership is in some ways also a question of personal responsibility versus state paternalism, at least in my reckoning, that does not necessarily make it a bad thing but that's how I would frame the issue and debate the right the wrong and the difference from there.

    Anyway, I think that this paternalism has at least contributed to a diminished personal responsibility, by which I mean in no small part self control and all the things that entails, like emotional competence. What does anyone else think?

  2. #2
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Here, here. More natural selection and less nannying thank you very much.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

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    Senior Member proximo's Avatar
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    If I could just cross the road, that'd be fine, thank you very much.

    That is, you understand, cross where I need to. Like when I'm standing on the other side of the street, opposite the building I need to be in, it'd be nice if I didn't have to circumnavigate several hundred metres of idiot bars in order to cross where I'm told to, where the Pelican crossing is, on this one-way street that you'd have to be suicidal or so stupid you shouldn't be out without a nurse, to get run over on.
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    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Since this continued off of the gun control thread, I'll use that as a jumping-off point.

    If the initial proposed idea is true, the people in the USA should have more personal responsibility than the people in the UK. Yet one of the main things that fires up comparison of gun control between the two countries is the fact that people in the USA shoot each way more than people in the UK. You say policies like the gun control laws deminish personal responsibility. I ask you, does the behavior in the USA look like personal responsibility to you?
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  5. #5
    Oberon
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    So... how many surveillance cameras are now installed in cities in the UK now?

    I would have said that there's no way in hell that such a thing would ever come to pass in the US, but now I'm by no means certain of that.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Here, here. More natural selection and less nannying thank you very much.
    I'm unsure what you're suggesting, you agree that it has contributed to diminished personal responsibility but what has "natural selection" to do with it and how do you define that? What do you mean by nannying? I have a friend who works as a nanny and she works very hard.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Since this continued off of the gun control thread, I'll use that as a jumping-off point.

    If the initial proposed idea is true, the people in the USA should have more personal responsibility than the people in the UK. Yet one of the main things that fires up comparison of gun control between the two countries is the fact that people in the USA shoot each way more than people in the UK. You say policies like the gun control laws deminish personal responsibility. I ask you, does the behavior in the USA look like personal responsibility to you?
    Excellent point. I've not heard it before either, thanks for that.

    I do think that paternalism has ramped diminished personal responsibility in some ways its not been the only cause, or even the greatest, for that I'd look to the economy and the expectations underpinnning its functonng and the messages it sends out.

    Consumerism fosters impulsivity and feelings of entitlement more than anything else.

    Its also been one of the driving forces behind arming America, big chrome side arms like the Desert Eagle, are more accessories and have more to do with bling than marksmanship.

    There are other factors too though.

  8. #8
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Here, here. More natural selection and less nannying thank you very much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm unsure what you're suggesting, you agree that it has contributed to diminished personal responsibility but what has "natural selection" to do with it and how do you define that? What do you mean by nannying? I have a friend who works as a nanny and she works very hard.


    Come on Xander. Explain just what you've got against nannies.

    Figuratively. Not literally.

    Ahem.

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    I think that despite all of their lovely freedom, Americans don't really take more "personal responsibility" - they're still shooting each other up in droves at school, church, fast-food restaurants, post offices, and now military bases.

    Plus, Americans are always suing each other over the most completely stupid non-gun related issues - like, "oh! I tripped over my shoe in Wal-Mart! Guess I have to sue now!"

    Yes, it is that bad here. Anyone who thinks Americans, in general, are more "personally responsible" aren't actually looking at our country and our culture.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    So... how many surveillance cameras are now installed in cities in the UK now?

    I would have said that there's no way in hell that such a thing would ever come to pass in the US, but now I'm by no means certain of that.
    Every mobile phone I see on sale has a surveillace camera in it, everyone can and does surveill everyone else. Is that what you meant?

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