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  1. #51
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Nobody has been denying that you can attack someone without a gun. That's not the point. The point was already clearly made, and I should have to say it here.
    That was not meant to be a serious post. Lighten up.
    But to get serious, it is pointless to bitch about guns when the problem is people.
    It is naive to think more gun control will allow people to tiptoe through the tulips in a utopian society.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    You don't need a gun to attack someone:

    Woman held after attack on man with raw steak | floridatoday.com | FLORIDA TODAY


    A 53-year-old Dunnellon woman has been arrested after allegedly hitting a man in the head with a raw steak.
    According to a Marion County Sheriff’s Office report, the man told deputies that Elsie Egan repeatedly hit him with the uncooked meat,
    and slapped his face after he refused a piece of sliced bread.

    The man said he wanted a bread roll.



    That was not meant to be a serious post. Lighten up.
    But to get serious, it is pointless to bitch about guns when the problem is people.
    It is naive to think more gun control will allow people to tiptoe through the tulips in a utopian society.
    I don't believe in a utopian society. But it would be nice if life were more like an Agatha Christie novel.

  3. #53
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    But to get serious, it is pointless to bitch about guns when the problem is people.
    The source of all human problems are in people.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #54
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    [/YOUTUBE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    The source of all human problems are in people.

    [YOUTUBE="voKdxD07PgE"]Problems are in people[/YOUTUBE]



    So if we know people are this way and probably won't change, why make destruction simpler for them?

  5. #55
    Senior Member ubiquitous1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Anyway, I think that this paternalism has at least contributed to a diminished personal responsibility, by which I mean in no small part self control and all the things that entails, like emotional competence. What does anyone else think?
    I agree, the amount of perceived personal responsibility is proportional to the amount of personal freedoms.

  6. #56
    Senior Member ubiquitous1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    I know it's died down a bit over the years, but a mention of Northern Ireland is in order too.
    True

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Yes... a gun is a tool. It is a tool designed to do a better job at killing than anything that existed before the gun. This is the basis of the concern.
    Just because its purpose is to kill doesn't make guns inherently bad. Are there justified shootings? Cars aren't designed to kill, but they are involved in more fatalities than guns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    That one slipped by me. It doesn't make much different to me, though. That quote misses all kinds of important factors, both concerning the social circumstance, and the nature of the weapons in question.
    My understanding of whole problem with guns is the ease which people can kill others. I was pointing out that malicious people will find ways to kill scores of people, and there are more efficient ways to accomplish this than with guns.

  7. #57
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    From my perspective. The likelyhood of murder through momentary rage/passion is increased tremendously with the avaliability of guns. Yes, while it might be true that those intent on killing someone will do so regardless, at least deaths that aren't calculated won't be additional death counts.

    Overall the whole process is definitely baby-sitting. You wouldn't let a child near a weapon, so why would you let an adult whose rationalism has completely gone out of the window, to the extent that they are essentially a child. Don't I have an optimistic view on the general public.

  8. #58
    Senior Member ubiquitous1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    From my perspective. The likelyhood of murder through momentary rage/passion is increased tremendously with the avaliability of guns. Yes, while it might be true that those intent on killing someone will do so regardless, at least deaths that aren't calculated won't be additional death counts.

    Overall the whole process is definitely baby-sitting. You wouldn't let a child near a weapon, so why would you let an adult whose rationalism has completely gone out of the window, to the extent that they are essentially a child. Don't I have an optimistic view on the general public.
    Following this logic, we should ban cars. If we get rid of cars there would be a lot less accidental deaths, and the added bonus of cleaning up the environment. There would be no drunk drivers, speeders, aggressive drivers, car jackings, texting drivers ect.

    Or are the deaths related to irresponsible drivers somehow more acceptable than deaths related to guns?

  9. #59
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ubiquitous1 View Post
    Following this logic, we should ban cars. If we get rid of cars there would be a lot less accidental deaths, and the added bonus of cleaning up the environment. There would be no drunk drivers, speeders, aggressive drivers, car jackings, texting drivers ect.

    Or are the deaths related to irresponsible drivers somehow more acceptable than deaths related to guns?
    I think there's a legal doctrine that helps explain the seeming gap in logic - "inherently dangerous products and activities". While cars have many dangers associated with them, few people would argue that the dangers are inherent to the nature of it being a car (while its transportation value is). Meanwhile, the danger associated with a gun (bullets kill things) is inherent in the purpose a gun is designed for (to forcefully lodge bullets into things).

  10. #60
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ubiquitous1 View Post
    Just because its purpose is to kill doesn't make guns inherently bad. Are there justified shootings? Cars aren't designed to kill, but they are involved in more fatalities than guns.
    A concept of inherent badness has never been a part of my argument.

    As has already been said, cars are also involved in far more utility than guns.


    Quote Originally Posted by ubiquitous1 View Post
    My understanding of whole problem with guns is the ease which people can kill others. I was pointing out that malicious people will find ways to kill scores of people, and there are more efficient ways to accomplish this than with guns.
    Why do you think the USA has such a high rate of deaths by gun, but almost no one being killed with explosives?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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