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  1. #181
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    onemoretime, are you fucking serious? This is pretty much the exact kind of paranoia you're accusing right-wingers of exhibiting; only it involves evil "Religious Right fascists" instead of screams about Hiliary Clinton wanting to take over the world.
    Read the book (it's free on the site, you know). It's not wild assertion - it's hard statistics based on very rigorous study over the last 40 years.

  2. #182
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Whole lotta people. Very small space. Gets to a person.
    But the U.S. is the third-largest nation in the world with lots of space, and many of our shooting rampages are in small towns. Do you really think the motivations behind shooting rampages vary from country to country so markedly?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Read the book (it's free on the site, you know).
    I'll pass, I'd rather concentrate on actual works dealing with political theory than third-rate hack work dealing with media cliches concerning mainstream parties(left or right).

    It's not wild assertion - it's hard statistics based on very rigorous study over the last 40 years.
    Uh huh, uh huh. Keep talking.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Read the book (it's free on the site, you know). It's not wild assertion - it's hard statistics based on very rigorous study over the last 40 years.
    That is the same stupid hypothesis that Adorno cooked up years ago and has since been debunked. Proof positive that is stupid? FDR put innocent Japanese-Americans into concentration camps. Authoritarianism and corruption aren't unique to right-wingers.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Authoritarianism and corruption aren't unique to right-wingers.
    One British observer in the 1930's actually remarked favorably about how the American presidency exemplified the best example of monarchy at work in the modern world.

  6. #186
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    I'll pass, I'd rather concentrate on actual works dealing with political theory than third-rate hack work dealing with media cliches concerning mainstream parties(left or right).
    Why does that not surprise me? Oh, and this guy is only the most eminent scholar on the subject of authoritarianism, and why people supported things like the Nazi regime and the Soviet Union. Some third-rate hack, indeed.

    Left and right are not political parties. They are orientations as to whether you prefer more openness and change (left) or restriction and constancy (right).

    Uh huh, uh huh. Keep talking.
    Provide evidence otherwise. I'm guessing you won't bother. In other words, I see right through you.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Why does that not surprise me? Oh, and this guy is only the most eminent scholar on the subject of authoritarianism, and why people supported things like the Nazi regime and the Soviet Union. Some third-rate hack, indeed.

    Left and right are not political parties. They are orientations as to whether you prefer more openness and change (left) or restriction and constancy (right).



    Provide evidence otherwise. I'm guessing you won't bother. In other words, I see right through you.
    Yeah, what's left and right varies from the political structure from country to country.

  8. #188
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    That is the same stupid hypothesis that Adorno cooked up years ago and has since been debunked. Proof positive that is stupid? FDR put innocent Japanese-Americans into concentration camps. Authoritarianism and corruption aren't unique to right-wingers.


    Once again, read the book before spouting off opinions. It's not "right-wing" as in supporting conservatives (traditional American conservatives are very anti-authoritarian), it's "right-wing" as in "preferring people to be constrained to what is currently accepted by society as normal, and fearing social change", as opposed to "left-wing", meaning "change must be imposed at all costs". pure_mercury, for all that we disagree, I promise you that you're not a right-wing authoritarian, because you have changes you want to see come to fruition, and you're suspicious of authority figures of any stripe.

    FDR wasn't "left-wing" by this definition, though he did lean to the left. Not to mention, one of the points made in the book is that people's openness to authoritarianism rises dramatically in the wake of a major shared crisis. This may partially explain how easily the heavily authoritarian policies of the post-9/11 era came about.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post


    Once again, read the book before spouting off opinions. It's not "right-wing" as in supporting conservatives (traditional American conservatives are very anti-authoritarian), it's "right-wing" as in "preferring people to be constrained to what is currently accepted by society as normal, and fearing social change", as opposed to "left-wing", meaning "change must be imposed at all costs". pure_mercury, for all that we disagree, I promise you that you're not a right-wing authoritarian, because you have changes you want to see come to fruition, and you're suspicious of authority figures of any stripe.
    Those definitions shouldn't even be "left" or "right" then. Many of the left in the United States are majorly traditionalist. These terms are useless if we have so many definitions of left and right that we don't even know what we're talking about now. The extreme social right-wing in the U.S. does NOT want "people to be constrained to what is currently accepted by society as normal." They want to impose sweeping social change, but in a radically different way from most of what you would call "the left."


    FDR wasn't "left-wing" by this definition, though he did lean to the left. Not to mention, one of the points made in the book is that people's openness to authoritarianism rises dramatically in the wake of a major shared crisis. This may partially explain how easily the heavily authoritarian policies of the post-9/11 era came about.[/QUOTE]

    But the policies post-9/11 were NOT majorly different from the trend in America from the 1930s on. It was just continuing down a very dangerous path.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  10. #190
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Those definitions shouldn't even be "left" or "right" then. Many of the left in the United States are majorly traditionalist. These terms are useless if we have so many definitions of left and right that we don't even know what we're talking about now. The extreme social right-wing in the U.S. does NOT want "people to be constrained to what is currently accepted by society as normal." They want to impose sweeping social change, but in a radically different way from most of what you would call "the left."
    However, they believe that it is "normal" and that everything else is an aberration to be shunned and feared. That is why they can say with a straight face that all the Founding Fathers were Christian, even when you point out to them that a good proportion were Deists.

    The terminology is used because while clunky and imprecise, it is also commonly understood.

    BTW, he goes into Adorno's study and why it was fundamentally flawed (particularly, it didn't control for the fact that people answer "yes" when they don't know or don't have an opinion on an answer)

    But the policies post-9/11 were NOT majorly different from the trend in America from the 1930s on. It was just continuing down a very dangerous path.
    Sure they were - they specifically sought to have physical coercive power over individuals without due process. That's a shift that we maybe only last saw (outside of the Jim Crow South) during the Red Scare following WWI.

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