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  1. #91
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bananatrombones View Post

    You might argue that legalizing banned drugs would have a more beneficial effects than tooling up Uncle Bert and Aunt Florie - whose efforts at "self defence" might just get 'em killed.
    Criminalization of drugs and personal weapons are both wrong.

    I never bought that whole argument of "government knows what's good for you so don't you worry your pretty little head".

    Uncle Bert and Aunt Florie are grown adults, and if they are not felons and can pass the gun safety class, I don't see a reason why the government should not allow them to own a firearm for self defense. And if they want to drop acid on their time that's fine too. As long as they don't handle the guns while on acid - DUI equivalent type of laws should be in place for guns (i.e. if you are found drunk or stoned while carrying a weapon, your license will be revoked.)
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  2. #92
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Uncle Bert and Aunt Florie are grown adults, and if they are not felons and can pass the gun safety class, I don't see a reason why the government should not allow them to own a firearm for self defense.
    Because, Dear Edgar, it creates a dangerous escalation in violence erstwhile unknown.

    After all. We don't want to end up like you, with the cat well out of the bag.

    Seasons greetings to you.


  3. #93
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bananatrombones View Post
    Because, Dear Edgar, it creates a dangerous escalation in violence erstwhile unknown.
    I disagree. I think hooligans would be a lot more behaved if they knew that the citizens were armed.

    After all. We don't want to end up like you, with the cat well out of the bag.

    Seasons greetings to you.

    May you have a blessed Al-Hijira in UKstan as well.

    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  4. #94
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I don't have statistics on hand, but I recall that people who own a gun are at very high risk of being killed by their own gun. So high that they outweigh the odds of being killed by someone else's gun.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  5. #95
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Guns also kill countless people in the United States every year.


    Number of homicides (2002):

    US: 10881 (275 million inhabitants)
    UE: 1260 (376 million inhabitants)

    % of homicides with firearms (2000):

    US: 65%
    UK: 8%

    10881 homicides = NOT COUNTLESS. The number of defensive gun uses per year in the United States really is countless. Estimates range from 800,000 to 2 million. Plus, the War on Drugs in the United States has made the drug trade very lucrative and very dangerous. Hundreds, if not thousands, of these homicides are committed by drug traffickers or people under the influence. It's not unreasonable to assume that the U.S. murder rate per capita would be more in line Europe's if our drug laws weren't so harsh.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  6. #96
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    10881 homicides = NOT COUNTLESS. The number of defensive gun uses per year in the United States really is countless. Estimates range from 800,000 to 2 million. Plus, the War on Drugs in the United States has made the drug trade very lucrative and very dangerous. Hundreds, if not thousands, of these homicides are committed by drug traffickers or people under the influence. It's not unreasonable to assume that the U.S. murder rate per capita would be more in line Europe's if our drug laws weren't so harsh.
    It wouldn't lower the murder rate that much.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  7. #97
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    More children die per year in the US from drowning in buckets than from firearms. Guns are used defensively more than offensively. Regardless of that, if someone wants to kill you, they will kill you with or without a gun.
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    I hope you are pro death penalty... since "messages" to criminals are so important to you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    I disagree. I think hooligans would be a lot more behaved if they knew that the citizens were armed.
    So basically, the potential criminal would have to have a clear enough mind to think about the consequences, and not think that they were going to get away with it anyway, or not be desperate enough to try it regardless. That excludes most crime, especially the types of crime that the death penalty is usually applied too. The majority of gun violence, if not gun crime as well.

    All in all, when it comes to gun restriction, it doesn't seem a very practical route in the US, or say Mexico. In a lot of other countries it works, and isn't too costly. The death penalty is a different story, the cost alone is convincing enough, the only reasonable counter argument I hear is that killing certain people is the just thing to do, regardless of the effort.

  9. #99
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    10881 homicides = NOT COUNTLESS. The number of defensive gun uses per year in the United States really is countless. Estimates range from 800,000 to 2 million. Plus, the War on Drugs in the United States has made the drug trade very lucrative and very dangerous. Hundreds, if not thousands, of these homicides are committed by drug traffickers or people under the influence. It's not unreasonable to assume that the U.S. murder rate per capita would be more in line Europe's if our drug laws weren't so harsh.
    You should note that I just showed the numbers, I didn't explained them.

    Again, no proselytizing. Two different systems, two different counties, two different cultures, two different values.

    But, between me and you, I do not think the Drug policies are that "gentle" in Europe, or less harsh than in the US. Just to give you an anecdote, when I lived in NYC, I've been threatened three times by guys with guns. They didn't seem under the influence of drugs at all. As a matter of fact, one was a black teenager (15 years old?) who just wanted to "earn some respect" and kill his first white guy. Fortunately, his elder brother convinced him to spare me and my German girlfriend -it happened around 1996, if I remember well-, on the pretense we weren't the descendants of white slavers (unlike the average white WASP, or whatever he said).

    Let's say something similar NEVER happened in Europe, where I have spent dozens of years of my life. And furthermore, in those EU countries, I could wander almost wherever I wanted: a local farmer will never threaten me with his rifle if ever I trespass in his domain.

    The only two other countries where I have feared for my life and seen people killed with bullets were South Africa, and Israel.

    Again, that's just plain facts. No prozelytizing.

    You can interpret them in any way you want, be my guest!
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  10. #100
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I don't have statistics on hand, but I recall that people who own a gun are at very high risk of being killed by their own gun. So high that they outweigh the odds of being killed by someone else's gun.
    People who own a car have a higher likelihood of dying in a car accident that those without one.

    Does that mean we should ban cars too?
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

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