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  1. #1
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Default Militaries in Europe

    This one is for all the Europeans on the forum. I'm interested in how Europeans view their militaries. Do you find there is a great deal of respect for militaries? Do you respect the soldiers? What kind of person is the average soldier?

    I have heard it been argued that the EU will only be recognized the Europe power if and when there is a European Army--that is, Polish, French, and Slovakian enlisted soldiers operating under Belgian officers, for example. What are your thoughts on this?
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  2. #2

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    I'm from Northern Ireland, really extreme opinions about the military here, there's paramilitaries here too which I doubt is the case many other places, even if they resemble the gangs in the US a lot of the time.

    In my experience squaddies are a certain sort of people and a lot of ex-army guys are similar in their conduct and manners and it can reflect their rank when they finished service too. They are all macho, opinionated, not phased by aggrivation or physical violence very easily, with adventurous or wild streeks which occasionally reassert themselves. The ones of a higher rank can be much more well spoken, less authoritarian in their outlook too but even they have the uncowed or unconcerned streek I'm thinking off. So many of the population live with a certain fear of consequences, in a way they're cowed, by both the authorities and thugs or how those very things can uniquely combine in modern life.

    I dont feel any patriotic support for the army, any more than I would perhaps feel especially supportive of social services, education services, detectives or people practicing medicine or nursing, its all a job. The world can be changed through force of arms aswell as force of ideas and as a result the military have a valid role when combined with a legitimate authority.

    I dont believe that a single European fighting force is necessary, I can understand how the US doesnt want to be the single nation shouldering the expense of being a world police (not just money, that much is obvious, military keynesianism can work as well as any other sort to sustain an economy, even if its less popular with tax payers, a disinterested and distractable public and the one percent than it was but in terms of good will and global affinity too).

  3. #3
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post

    I have heard it been argued that the EU will only be recognized the Europe power if and when there is a European Army--that is, Polish, French, and Slovakian enlisted soldiers operating under Belgian officers, for example. What are your thoughts on this?

    ->Eurocorps - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

  4. #4
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    That's interesting, but it seems more like a NATO type establishment than what I have in mind. I'm thinking more along the lines of individual states completely giving up military autonomy in order to participate in one solidified and unified European Army. With Eurocorps, pledging is not mandatory, so it's not exactly what I mean.
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  5. #5
    Sniffles
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    You mean an independent EU army they keep talking about?

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    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    That's interesting, but it seems more like a NATO type establishment than what I have in mind. I'm thinking more along the lines of individual states completely giving up military autonomy in order to participate in one solidified and unified European Army. With Eurocorps, pledging is not mandatory, so it's not exactly what I mean.
    It's not a "NATO type establishment" at all.

    Actually, the Eurocorps were created as an alternative from NATO.

    And yes, you have battalions and corps where commanding officiers are German, and the soldiers French. Or Belgian. And vice-versa.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    It's not a "NATO type establishment" at all.

    Actually, the Eurocorps were created as an alternative from NATO.

    And yes, you have battalions and corps where commanding officiers are German, and the soldiers French. Or Belgian. And vice-versa.
    Right but if the individual states can choose whether to participate, or even if they participate and still keep their own armies, it doesn't really mean that much in terms of there being Europe, as one solid state with no international boundaries.

    What I'm looking for is if you think there will be a military force (not just an army) that is the exclusive military of Europe, such that individual states don't have their own separate militaries.

    At any rate, would you mind answering the first part of my questions?
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  8. #8
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    ... What I'm looking for is if you think there will be a military force (not just an army) that is the exclusive military of Europe, such that individual states don't have their own separate militaries.
    Unlikely in the sense you are imagining. Most Europeans want the EU to be an intergovernmental organization, not a supranational organization.

    Thus it would be extremely unpopular to make one super-national army for the whole of Europe and do away with the independent armies. Most Europeans want to do a Charles de Gaulle, pull out of the integrated military command of NATO and replace it with an EU equivalent.
    Last edited by Falcarius; 12-08-2009 at 06:57 AM. Reason: poor grammar
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
    Oh our 3rd person reference to ourselves denotes nothing more than we realize we are epic characters on the forum.

    Narcissism, plain and simple.

  9. #9
    Junior Member YaeRRoW's Avatar
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    To one and two, not realy they are just kinda there to uphold peace and yadda yadda...
    Corageus, insane, desperate, dumb, adventurous, proud, blind (as in decieved people) and power hungry. I think theres more... did I fail?

    And as far as the Eurocorps goes... duhh thhrrr I guess? I mean the only real problem would be the language barrier, and perhaps failed brainwash training program? (For those who hate people from other countries.)

  10. #10
    Senior Member Shimmy's Avatar
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    I have a great deal of respect for people who are willing to give their lives for what they believe is right (note, I have no respect at all for people who are willing to kill for what they believe is right.) As for the concept of a military. It would be better if noone would need an army, but alas, I don't think that will be realistic in the near future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    I have heard it been argued that the EU will only be recognized the Europe power if and when there is a European Army--that is, Polish, French, and Slovakian enlisted soldiers operating under Belgian officers, for example. What are your thoughts on this?
    I once had to make a policy proposition for a Dutch inter-school project called the Model European Parliament. I don't remember all the details, but I do remember it was good enough to be the only proposition that got accepted by vote after the debate.
    (removed)

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