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  1. #21
    Senior Member proximo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Are the feelings of the minority worth more simply because they are the minority?
    I think some people think they are...

    I know in this country at least, we have the freedom to say or think whatever we want.
    Legal right, yes... but whatever you want - not wherever and whenever you want? There's still a time and a place, don't you think?

    I don't think someone else's feelings should come before freedom of speech.
    Where does responsibility fit in there, though? Freedoms ought to be used responsibly and considerately, no?
    I'm male and over 30, FYI.
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  2. #22
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    Legal right, yes... but whatever you want - not wherever and whenever you want? There's still a time and a place, don't you think?

    The limitations were presumed. Of course people shouldn't be able to yell fire in a crowded theatre.

    But outside of the (several) exceptions to the 1st Amendment right, that right is absolute.

    Where does responsibility fit in there, though? Freedoms ought to be used responsibly and considerately, no?
    Of course one should be considerate with, and responsible for, what they say, but it is NOT the gov'ts job to force that responsibility and consideration on us.

  3. #23
    Senior Member proximo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    Proximo, are you not too being intolerant of these people talking about how you are annoyed about it here? The thing is you are siding with the majority in this one. The minority feels... minor and therefore it would be common to find them talking in the way you see them talk. Get people from the majority and make them a minority somewhere else and you will find the same thing.
    Yes I know - that was my experience in going from being a white person on the high street, where I was the majority, to being a white person in the mosque, where I was a minority. Yet my non-voluntary membership of the external majority was not viewed on a balanced or equal basis with my voluntary membership of this minority, where I became a minority of a minority. Uh...

    I don't think I'm being intolerant - I'm looking to discuss it and hear others' views. I'm not acting on any of this as we speak. I've not prevented anyone from doing things which I mentioned in the OP, however much they've irritated me at the time. I've always supported their rights, and their practices where applicable (often at great effort and expense to myself - preparing two meals rather than one, to accommodate their scruples, etc, without complaint).

    I don't think it's intolerant to simply feel annoyed when a person behaves rudely and insults the things one holds true or dear, without provocation. I'm not "siding with" anybody. If I were siding with the majority, I'd have said I agreed with DB's advice of just battling it out in a "me against them" scenario.

    I'm making observations and asking questions. I'm looking for a way to remain tolerant and respectful towards a person in the face of their intolerance and disrespect towards me, without losing respect for myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Of course one should be considerate with, and responsible for, what they say, but it is NOT the gov'ts job to force that responsibility and consideration on us.
    Well, I agree, though I never mentioned the government. I'm under a different government to you anyway, in a country that doesn't have a constitution.
    I'm male and over 30, FYI.
    Preferences: 20% Extravert, 98% Intuitive, 68% Thinker, 17% Perceiving

  4. #24
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Then tell them what you are saying now.

  5. #25
    Senior Member proximo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    Then tell them what you are saying now.
    Introvert alert! edit - this is just kidding, I'm not hating on introverts, before that minority comes at me with pitchforks!

    Not only is it usually inappropriate to commandeer a social situation and the time alloted to it, over to the defense of oneself against a single remark, but in most cases you don't get the time to do that even if it were. You have seconds to decide your reaction, and then a few more seconds in which to show it. That's my exact point: how do I face down an intolerant remark towards myself at, say, a dinner party, without allowing the entire dinner party to, against the will of the majority of guests, become a big debate about the principles of the minority group member with the chip on their shoulder, and without making that person feel oppressed or their view disrespected?
    I'm male and over 30, FYI.
    Preferences: 20% Extravert, 98% Intuitive, 68% Thinker, 17% Perceiving

  6. #26
    Senior Member ubiquitous1's Avatar
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    It is not okay for someone to force their morality on other people. When people do this to me, I just remind them that there are people who have the opposite view point with just as much conviction. I have been a vegetarian for years, on and off, since I was 12. I never lectured people on eating meat. Like you, I am not a vegetarian anymore for medical reasons. Unfortunately, for the vegetarians of the world, our biology requires us to consume meat.

  7. #27
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    I just go for the more, speak softly and carry a big stick approach.

    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

    Cimarron: maybe Prpl will be your girl-bud
    prplchknz: i don't like it

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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I just go for the more, speak softly and carry a big stick approach.

    Murder has always been the most delicious sin.

  9. #29
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proximo View Post
    Introvert alert! edit - this is just kidding, I'm not hating on introverts, before that minority comes at me with pitchforks!

    Not only is it usually inappropriate to commandeer a social situation and the time alloted to it, over to the defense of oneself against a single remark, but in most cases you don't get the time to do that even if it were. You have seconds to decide your reaction, and then a few more seconds in which to show it. That's my exact point: how do I face down an intolerant remark towards myself at, say, a dinner party, without allowing the entire dinner party to, against the will of the majority of guests, become a big debate about the principles of the minority group member with the chip on their shoulder, and without making that person feel oppressed or their view disrespected?
    The solution is simple. Go against their views using their very own values and beliefs.

  10. #30
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    This is the INTJ answer for everything But since we're going that route, I'll stick to my Maddox-philosophy-inspired theme.

    Guiltless grill? Is there another kind?
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

    Cimarron: maybe Prpl will be your girl-bud
    prplchknz: i don't like it

    In Search Of... ... Kiwi Sketch Art ... Dream Journal ... Kyuuei's Cook book ... Kyu's Tiny House Blog ... Minimalist Challenge ... Kyu's Savings Challenge

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