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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Shouldn't we consider that all of the currently well established major businesses are the kind that would probably be hurt by environmentally friendly regulation?

    If we follow the money, it probably leads toward people that want global warming to be a hoax.
    Of course many established major business will be hurt by carbon regulation (note that I am making a distinction between environmentally friendly regulation and carbon regulation). The difference is that it is not politically correct to say you are against going green in public.

    Don't you find it odd that we are not brainstorming other potential solutions at all?

  2. #22
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Besides, what should we make of this if it's so damning? Should we just stop listening to all of these scientists?
    We should stop listening to the ones involved in this, absolutely.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Shouldn't we consider that all of the currently well established major businesses are the kind that would probably be hurt by environmentally friendly regulation?
    False.


    If we follow the money, it probably leads toward people that want global warming to be a hoax.
    It really doesn't matter if the people who hacked the system believe global warming is a hoax or if they were paid by people who want the public to believe it was a hoax. If the content of those e-mails are not faked, then they are incredibly damning to a subset of climate research scientists.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #24
    Senior Member millerm277's Avatar
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    That scientists from a respectable institution -- one of the major sources of information on climate change -- have been blackballing intellectual opponents (and expressing violent fantasies about them), witholding data that doesn't support their position, and creating intentionally misleading reports is a tad worrying.
    None of this is surprising. Well, lets start with the irrelevant part: A simple fact of life, is people like to talk about people they don't like with other people who think similarly. If they're close enough to be friends, saying the equivalent of "I want to kill them!" is not really surprising, especially if one is pissed off...it's a way to vent for them.

    Now then: The withholding data and misleading reports IS worrying. However, it is basic human nature to want the thing you believe in to be right...That's why close scrutiny is needed of the data and results, and why it would be good to have more unbiased research on this.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    That's what bothers me, what good is peer review when it's just one big circle jerk?
    This annoys me so much I can't usually bear to discuss scientific controversies. I don't care whether something's been peer reviewed or not, I want to know their reasons for declaring it valid or invalid and make my own mind up having seen the counter-arguments too. Most people who think of themselves as skeptics seem to think 'it's been peer reviewed, so you must just ASSUME that means it meets the Gold scientific standard or you're a science-hating idiot'. They might as well scrap the current criteria for what makes a good experiment and replace it with one criterion: 'been peer reviewed = perfectly valid in every way'. They completely disregard the possibility that factors relating to human fallibility and ulterior motives might contribute to the conclusion of the review. You see it in every controversial scientific issue. Regardless of who I suspect is right, that unhealthy relationship to authority bothers me every time.

  6. #26
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by compulsiverambler View Post
    They completely disregard the possibility that factors relating to human fallibility and ulterior motives might contribute to the conclusion of the review.
    Question: Are you suggesting that no progress or no consensus has ever been made thanks to science?

    And if not, why?

    You see it in every controversial scientific issue. Regardless of who I suspect is right, that unhealthy relationship to authority bothers me every time.
    Climate change is NOT a controversial scientific issue. When 90%+ of scientists agree, frankly, there is no controversy, whether or not their reviews have been "peer reviewed" or not.

    However, it is a controversial political issue.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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