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  1. #171
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Yes, and we've fought two wars with them. The last one has lasted for 8 years. That goes a bit beyond "retaliation."
    How so? Should we let a mass murderer here in the US get away if after 8 years he still had not been caught? Are police supposed to just stop looking for murderers and arresting them if they still aren't caught by a certain time?
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  2. #172
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Al-Qadea operates in several countries.
    Yes, and measures must be taken. But we're talking about objectives in Afghanistan here, and Al Qaeda was a big part of why we went in.
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  3. #173
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    Yes, and measures must be taken. But we're talking about objectives in Afghanistan here, and Al Qaeda was a big part of why we went in.
    How much of Al-Qadea still remains in Afghanistan can be debated. In fact in much public discourse the distinction between Al-Qadea and the Taliban are confused at best.

  4. #174
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    How much of Al-Qadea still remains in Afghanistan can be debated. In fact in much public discourse the distinction between Al-Qadea and the Taliban are confused at best.
    It's my understanding that the current number of Al Qaeda operatives in Afghanistan is less than 100, but that's not the point. The point is that the Taliban not only harbored them pre 9/11 but also refused to give them up when asked. Such a government cannot be permitted. The insurgents are Taliban. Given their track record, we can't allow them to return to power, especially as some Al Qaeda still are operating.
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  5. #175
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    It's my understanding that the current number of Al Qaeda operatives in Afghanistan is less than 100, but that's not the point.
    You just said that was the point.

    The point is that the Taliban not only harbored them pre 9/11 but also refused to give them up when asked. Such a government cannot be permitted. The insurgents are Taliban. Given their track record, we can't allow them to return to power, especially as some Al Qaeda still are operating.
    This seems more about telling the Afghanis what government they can and cannot have, as opposed to actually dealing with Al-Qadea.

  6. #176
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    You just said that was the point.



    This seems more about telling the Afghanis what government they can and cannot have, as opposed to actually dealing with Al-Qadea.
    1. Al Qaeda connection was the reason for going in, but the number of operatives there now, or why we went in is not the point of this topic. The topic is about why we have to send more troops and finish the mission, which coincidentally ties into preventing another Taliban government that supports Al Qaeda.

    2. That's our prerogative after being attacked. We're not chosing their leaders, but what we are saying is that a government that harbors and supports terrorists is unacceptable.
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  7. #177
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    Money talks BS walks.

    Appears like that was just another scam...Obama it seems is just another LBJ.

    Disappointing but not surprising; democrats and republicans are just the same ticket. Another illusion of choice.

    Yes We Scammed.
    Of course. I knew it would turn out like this.

    I'll never forget what I said during the whole Obama mania and everyone was asking what I thought of him:

    "Ask me that in another four years. It's not what a man says, but what he does, that makes him a man or not."

    The American system is designed to put off any kind of radical change. No dude is going to go in there and actually CHANGE stuff.

    Okay, it is possible, but he won't do it anyway. If he tried to do that, he'd get shot. We've seen that happen before.
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  8. #178
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    1. Al Qaeda connection was the reason for going in, but the number of operatives there now, or why we went in is not the point of this topic. The topic is about why we have to send more troops and finish the mission, which coincidentally ties into preventing another Taliban government that supports Al Qaeda.
    How do you know the Taliban will automatically go back to supporting Al-Qadea? Bin Laden was kicked out of Sudan before.


    2. That's our prerogative after being attacked. We're not chosing their leaders, but what we are saying is that a government that harbors and supports terrorists is unacceptable.
    The problem is that leaves us a with an abstract goal that doesn't really mean anything in terms of actual military or geo-political strategy. I mean installing a government that's non-hostile to America - ok, that's better but still poses a great challenge for us. The sad fact is that whatever government we install will have some ties to the Taliban. Even many members of the Afghan army were former members of the Taliban and other warlord militia.

  9. #179
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    How do you know the Taliban will automatically go back to supporting Al-Qadea? Bin Laden was kicked out of Sudan before.




    The problem is that leaves us a with an abstract goal that doesn't really mean anything in terms of actual military or geo-political strategy. I mean installing a government that's non-hostile to America - ok, that's better but still poses a great challenge for us. The sad fact is that whatever government we install will have some ties to the Taliban. Even many members of the Afghan army were former members of the Taliban and other warlord militia.
    1. Tactically, Al Qaeda ops and Taliban insurgents have cooperated. That's enough for me. But even supposing they weren't: would it really be worth finding out the hard way? Experience is the best basis of judgment here.

    2. It's not that abstract. We set up a more democratic and friendly government and Afghans choose their leaders. So long as the leaders are not collaborators with terrorist organizations, there is no problem. Yes there will be challenges, but that's no reason to give up, and I'm not sure the Taliban will always be there.
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  10. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    1. Tactically, Al Qaeda ops and Taliban insurgents have cooperated. That's enough for me. But even supposing they weren't: would it really be worth finding out the hard way? Experience is the best basis of judgment here.
    Alliances often shift and change in politics and warfare.

    2. It's not that abstract. We set up a more democratic and friendly government and Afghans choose their leaders. So long as the leaders are not collaborators with terrorist organizations, there is no problem. Yes there will be challenges, but that's no reason to give up, and I'm not sure the Taliban will always be there.
    Actually it is quite abstract, since we almost any government could be accused of supporting terrorists or some sort or another. As for exact form of government; that's really of no concern for us. As long as it provides stablity for the country and is not hostile to us. Democracy or no, who cares. In fact I dare say that liberal democracy is the last thing Afghanistan needs.

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