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  1. #51
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    No, not necessarily, and it's extremely naiive to assume so.
    So when a kid is extremely hyperactive, is a spoiled brat, and is really obnoxious, it is their fault?
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  2. #52
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I was just referring to the idea that some people seem to be claiming that if people were "good parents" (or teachers or principals) then we could just let these kids go outside and play and everything would be fine.

    My nephew is an especially energetic child. He loves to play outside and sometimes jumps around the house, dancing around, singing. He's awesome - and I consider him to be a regular boy with lots of energy. On the other hand, his friend who is diagnosed as ADHD is destructive, rude, and extremely infuriating to deal with. It's not just a little extra energy - and I feel bad that so many kids in this country who are just energetic kids have been medicated that some people think of that alone as simply being ADHD. That isn't ADHD. ADHD is a very real, disruptive disorder.
    I'd be willing to bet that the percentage of kids who actually have ADHD is very very low. So, back to my point... doctors are over medicating because they don't want to take the time to further investigate and to really help the kids.
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    So when a kid is extremely hyperactive, is a spoiled brat, and is really obnoxious, it is their fault?
    No, physical or mental illness isn't anyone's "fault." An extremely loving, attentive parent who fairly metes out discipline can still have a screaming, head banging child with Aspburger's Syndrome who annoys other people in public. That isn't the parent's fault, nor is it the child's. It's not that simple.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    No, physical or mental illness isn't anyone's "fault." An extremely loving, attentive parent who fairly metes out discipline can still have a screaming, head banging child with Aspburger's Syndrome who annoys other people in public. That isn't the parent's fault, nor is it the child's. It's not that simple.
    No, it isn't. You're missing my point.

    A lot of parents who raise spoiled, obnoxious, restless, hyperactive kids, without any definite psychological disfunctions, take their kids to the doctors to get tested for ADHD, get a prescription, and fuck up their kid's lives. It's sad, how can you not see this?
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  5. #55
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I was just referring to the idea that some people seem to be claiming that if people were "good parents" (or teachers or principals) then we could just let these kids go outside and play and everything would be fine.
    I'd be willing to bet that at least most would be fine, just judging on my personal experiences, speaking with psychologist sensitive to the issues with a child that I took temp custody of, and reading up on and visiting schools which have taken in children diagnosed with ADD/ADHD who became symptom free after being taken out of the traditional school system or after having major changes taken place in the home. Of course, there is always more to know.

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    On the other hand, his friend who is diagnosed as ADHD is destructive, rude, and extremely infuriating to deal with. It's not just a little extra energy - and I feel bad that so many kids in this country who are just energetic kids have been medicated that some people think of that alone as simply being ADHD. That isn't ADHD. ADHD is a very real, disruptive disorder.
    The problem with this is that children are in little position to speak out on what goes on in their homes. We rarely really know, as outsiders, what a child has to contend with. A parent can easily put on an act which appears like everything is going well, and in reality, the child is living in terror and abuse. Instead of the problem getting solved, which often rest in the child's environment, we medicate the child and claim that he is in fact, the real problem. And again, that's not to say that that's always the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Yeah, and this 'HOLY FUCKING TERROR' thing..wouldn't that be the fault of the parent? And it's like diagnosing ADHD in a child is almost justifiable of such behavior?
    Often times, that is true.
    There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    I'd be willing to bet that the percentage of kids who actually have ADHD is very very low. So, back to my point... doctors are over medicating because they don't want to take the time to further investigate and to really help the kids.
    I agree with you here. I think other factors should be ruled out first, such as diet, exercise, lifestyle, and whether or not the children are getting attention from their parents. I agree that it is a complex issue that must be dealt with on several levels - just like depression and anxiety.

    However, I do believe that ADHD does exist in those low numbers, and that medicine is sometimes necessary for certain people, and in my opinion trying something more natural isn't necessarily a bad thing. It may be a step in the right direction to a more holistic approach to health. One would hope.

  7. #57
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I agree with you here. I think other factors should be ruled out first, such as diet, exercise, lifestyle, and whether or not the children are getting attention from their parents. I agree that it is a complex issue that must be dealt with on several levels - just like depression and anxiety.

    However, I do believe that ADHD does exist in those low numbers, and that medicine is sometimes necessary for certain people, and in my opinion trying something more natural isn't necessarily a bad thing. It may be a step in the right direction to a more holistic approach to health. One would hope.
    I think we're mutual now. I agree with what you said, too.

    I think medical marijuana may be a step in the right direction. But is it socially acceptable? This may get in the way (it clearly is, as this is a discussion) of some parents wanting it to be prescribed to their kids. But, nonetheless, we need to be open to new doors.
    Just look at my signature if you don't believe me.

    We definitely blow ADHD way out of proportion. It's more or less a theory...how can you prove a Psychological Concept? One that remains elusive in the minds of so many people..how different it can be. They could be natural-collective variations, mutations, external stimuli, the product of psychological trauma, domestic violence, diet, sleep patterns, chemicals in the water, the school environment, and the possibilities are endless. I just think it's awfully claim-sy of Scientists to take all of these variations and put a big fat ol' label on it and think that it's necessary for these insane prescriptions to treat it, hardly knowing how much it can damage the child.
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    I think we're mutual now. I agree with what you said, too.

    I think medical marijuana may be a step in the right direction. But is it socially acceptable? This may get in the way (it clearly is, as this is a discussion) of some parents wanting it to be prescribed to their kids. But, nonetheless, we need to be open to new doors.
    Just look at my signature if you don't believe me.

    We definitely blow ADHD way out of proportion. It's more or less a theory...how can you prove a Psychological Concept? One that remains elusive in the minds of so many people..how different it can be. They could be natural-collective variations, mutations, external stimuli, the product of psychological trauma, domestic violence, diet, sleep patterns, chemicals in the water, the school environment, and the possibilities are endless. I just think it's awfully claim-sy of Scientists to take all of these variations and put a big fat ol' label on it and think that it's necessary for these insane prescriptions to treat it, hardly knowing how much it can damage the child.
    Yes, we are on the same page now. Of course this is a systemic problem which also involves the greed of pharmeceutical companies and the general capitalist state of the US healthcare system. But, again, this is a topic open to debate outside of the issue of using medical marijuana.

    I just wanted to clarify that there can be underlying physical or chemical causes that make the child behave as they do, that it isn't always the parent's fault. Yes, I absolutely do think parents should take responsibility. Yes, I absolutely do believe in holistic treatments. I don't even necessarily like the public school system, but I digress.

  9. #59
    Senior Member vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I just wanted to clarify that there can be underlying physical or chemical causes that make the child behave as they do, that it isn't always the parent's fault.
    Exactly.

    Another viewpoint perhaps : Take a good look at the world we live and grow up in. I think ADHD is inevitable and collectively hopeless.

  10. #60
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Marijuana cures ADHD and causes ADD.
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