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  1. #11
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Funny enough, Wildcat is right.

    Buying art has historically been one of the best hedges against currency changes as well as inflation. And not "high end" art, but simply decent art.

    It does not, however, protect you in times of crisis the same as gold does. I believe for most people, between 5-10% in gold is the optimal amount for diversification. I wouldn't suggest that, however, until you are nearly an accredited investor.

    You should, however, have about 30% denominated in foreign assets so long as you have more than about $50,000.
    When do people sell their gold?
    During the time of the crises & depression.
    And what is the value of gold under depression?

    At a time when everybody is selling their gold it does not affect the market?

    The wikipedia articles are not composed by disinterested people.
    They do not receive a compensation for their articles?
    Not by wikipedia.

    In the early twenties you could not buy bread with money in Berlin.
    My family exchanged all their gold for bread.
    Do you know what was the price of gold per ounce in those days?

    A protective measure is for the emergency only.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post

    In the early twenties you could not buy bread with money in Berlin.
    My family exchanged all their gold for bread.
    Do you know what was the price of gold per ounce in those days?

    A protective measure is for the emergency only.
    Simple curiosity: how old art thou?
    *
    Last edited by Eternue-MDL; 11-04-2007 at 08:59 AM. Reason: redundant point

  3. #13
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    When do people sell their gold?
    During the time of the crises & depression.
    And what is the value of gold under depression?

    At a time when everybody is selling their gold it does not affect the market?
    No, not terribly. The rate of inflation depends on the amount in circulation and in times of depression, gold is effectively the only commodity people use in common trade. As a result, the velocity of gold increases by many fold, with gold screaming through the economy.

    Until balance is met (demand for gold - for money - increases dramatically), the amount being spent is normally uncontrolled. Gold rarely stabilizes during a depression for a very long time.

    In the early twenties you could not buy bread with money in Berlin.
    My family exchanged all their gold for bread.
    Do you know what was the price of gold per ounce in those days?
    No idea. I do know that during before this period, the SD of gold was about $1-2 and hovered around 20 or so. After 1930 and before brentwood, it rose to about 35 and up.

    There were those without gold that couldn't buy bread either.

    The option is also open to buy gold companies as well, rather than exact denominations. You could also lease it back, but the return on that is a joke.


    A protective measure is for the emergency only.
    Yes. That is what I said. Most portfolios of a certain size can benefit from a small amount of gold ownership, once all over diversification has happened. It's a small but protective measure. (Accredited means 1 million/300k a year minimum.)

  4. #14
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eternue-MDL View Post
    Simple curiosity: how old art thou?
    *
    FAMILY

    1. Lineage
    2. Race
    3. Tribe
    4. Clan
    5. Kindred
    6. House
    7. Stock
    8. Blood
    9. Breed

  5. #15
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    No, not terribly. The rate of inflation depends on the amount in circulation and in times of depression, gold is effectively the only commodity people use in common trade. As a result, the velocity of gold increases by many fold, with gold screaming through the economy.

    Until balance is met (demand for gold - for money - increases dramatically), the amount being spent is normally uncontrolled. Gold rarely stabilizes during a depression for a very long time.



    No idea. I do know that during before this period, the SD of gold was about $1-2 and hovered around 20 or so. After 1930 and before brentwood, it rose to about 35 and up.

    There were those without gold that couldn't buy bread either.

    The option is also open to buy gold companies as well, rather than exact denominations. You could also lease it back, but the return on that is a joke.




    Yes. That is what I said. Most portfolios of a certain size can benefit from a small amount of gold ownership, once all over diversification has happened. It's a small but protective measure. (Accredited means 1 million/300k a year minimum.)
    You are good at numbers and exactness I know.
    My uncles were also good at numbers and exactness.

    You are good at Te. My uncles were also good at Te.

    You are half the way an N. My uncles were also half the way an N.

    There is a discrepancy between the academia and what is what.

    Expand. Read the memoirs. Be a Mensch.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    FAMILY

    1. Lineage
    2. Race
    3. Tribe
    4. Clan
    5. Kindred
    6. House
    7. Stock
    8. Blood
    9. Breed
    That's too bad. I had thought you may have had some interesting firsthand or next of kin story/information to share.

  7. #17
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eternue-MDL View Post
    That's too bad. I had thought you may have had some interesting firsthand or next of kin story/information to share.
    Next of kin. My father as a teen ager lived in Berlin in the early twenties.
    His parents sold all their gold.
    Whatever ptGatsby says, it was not much worth.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Next of kin. My father as a teen ager lived in Berlin in the early twenties.
    His parents sold all their gold.
    Whatever ptGatsby says, it was not much worth.
    I consider that interesting. Thank you for your insight about artwork, and thank you ptgatsby for sharing your opinions and knowledge as well.

  9. #19
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Metal is trash.
    ...but no more so than paper.

  10. #20
    Member GruffyBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    I've heard recently that the US dollar is now worth .60 Euros and .48 British Pounds. I've also heard that it's abnormal for it to be that low.

    What I want to know is what the consequences of this are. I've heard opposing views. One view is that a weaker dollar will actually improve manufacturing by encouraging people to buy our exports. Another is that the increased cost of importing oil and other materials will hurt the economy.
    Well, it is helping domestic manufacturing a bit. It is compressing margins on importers a bit (keep in mind many American companies do a lot of manufacturing overseas). Many importers are not passing through the full increase in prices. The bad thing is we are depreciating much more slowly against Asian currencies than European ones, so our Chinese deficit is not shrinking that fast (and Chinese exports to Europe are growing fast).

    The other side of the story is that manufacturing is a much smaller part of the economy today than it has been historically. These past few years we've sold a lot more Bonds than Buicks to the world. Now with the double whammy of dollar depreciation and toxic financial instruments, those bonds are seeming like pretty cruddy investments (kinda like Buicks were in the bad old days). The Asian exporters (and a lot of OPEC members) have been content to trade manufactured goods (and oil) for US debt. This has allowed us to have a lot more of their stuff, and them to have a lot more US debt. Now, with the US debt we sold them losing value daily they have to be wondering if this is such a good idea. If they decide they'll keep their toxic toys and let us keep our toxic debt then long term interest rates (as in mortgages) will go up and the dollar will fall even further (more against dollar pegging currencies than against the euro and the pound). We will have to make more stuff and less debt.

    So the short answer is it makes us feel better now but will probably make us feel worse later.

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