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  1. #51
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    Lying on my death bed thinking about what I could have done and could have changed if only I had the courage to try, would be a fate worse than death itself.

  2. #52
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    Politics less about the operational logistics of government, more about how to get everyone to agree on the specifics of the operations.

    –noun (used with a singular or plural verb)
    1. the science or art of political government.
    how
    2. the practice or profession of conducting political affairs.
    how
    3. political affairs: The advocated reforms have become embroiled in politics.
    how
    4. political methods or maneuvers: We could not approve of his politics in winning passage of the bill.
    how
    5. political principles or opinions: We avoided discussion of religion and politics. His politics are his own affair.

    6. use of intrigue or strategy in obtaining any position of power or control, as in business, university, etc.
    how
    7. (initial capital letter, italics) a treatise (4th century b.c.) by Aristotle, dealing with the structure, organization, and administration of the state, esp. the city-state as known in ancient Greece.
    operations

    —Idiom
    8. play politics.
    how
    a. to engage in political intrigue, take advantage of a political situation or issue, resort to partisan politics, etc.; exploit a political system or political relationships.
    how
    b. to deal with people in an opportunistic, manipulative, or devious way, as for job advancement.
    how

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    What about John Adams.

    I know that most politicians suck. I also know that one generally has to learn to play the game before one can get inside.

    But, what if someone, pure of intentions, divorced from his desire for material goods, and tireless in his pursuit of just governance, convinced the players in DC that he was a good ol' boy. One of them.

    All the while sleeping on his intentions for good. He waits until he is in a position of sufficient prominence, and once there, he works according to only his principles (not his party's). He destroys the entrenched power on both sides, and in so doing, gives a voice back to the American people, that moneyed interests, lobbying, and big business had taken as their own.

    To see the problem, know you have the ability to fix it, and yet do nothing because of a fear of losing yourself to the lesser demons of your character, is not only cowardly, it would only serve to suffocate the flames of passion which burn so desperately within me.
    But what if someone?

    That individual would end up deader than a door nail in 5 seconds flat.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by sLiPpY View Post
    But what if someone?

    That individual would end up deader than a door nail in 5 seconds flat.
    Then I march towards that fate proudly.

    EDIT: until I have a better reason to keep myself alive than myself that is (like a family for instance).

  5. #55
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    What about John Adams.

    I know that most politicians suck. I also know that one generally has to learn to play the game before one can get inside.

    But, what if someone, pure of intentions, divorced from his desire for material goods, and tireless in his pursuit of just governance, convinced the players in DC that he was a good ol' boy. One of them.

    All the while sleeping on his intentions for good. He waits until he is in a position of sufficient prominence, and once there, he works according to only his principles (not his party's). He destroys the entrenched power on both sides, and in so doing, gives a voice back to the American people, that moneyed interests, lobbying, and big business had taken as their own.

    To see the problem, know you have the ability to fix it, and yet do nothing because of a fear of losing yourself to the lesser demons of your character, is not only cowardly, it would only serve to suffocate the flames of passion which burn so desperately within me.
    In your OP, you asked about the general opinion of politicians. Are you not interested in that anymore? I don't understand your goal. Do you want to be Mysterion?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #56
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    Oh I'm definitely still interested.

    Don't take my passionate rebuttals as a lack of interest in your point of view.

    Please continue to tell me about your opinions.

    I'm just thinking about how I could avoid the problems you guys enumerated about the political process. And then replying to your statements with how I would try to avoid the issues you mentioned.

    This is all about trying to figure out how to go about being a better politician.

  7. #57
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I think its become reprehensible because its been made a get rich quick scheme since about 1979, in the UK at least New Labour might as well have meant "New Money", that example has been followed all across Europe by the post-'89 left wing.

    The right wing is apt to behave even more like shamelessly like publically appointed kings and queens since they have even less of a sense of bad faith than the left.

    Personally I think that avoratiousness of any sort cant fail to prick the conscience of people, even if it just provokes jealousy and envy, some people dont agree with that but the avoratiousness of those in public office bothers people more because they feel, like the welfare claimant who's choosing not to work, that they are working hard to bank roll others good times.

    Left and right I think that there is a sense of betrayal too, betrayal of what public office is really meant to be about, which is something other than a money spinning exercise. Even on the right wing some conservatives still believe that politics is meant to be more important than money, not many maybe but still.

    Not sure what to do to redeem public office, perhaps if they are the first to experience cuts in pay, expenses etc. when they introduce cuts in spending and services? Some kind of linking of the rate of pay of politicians to that of their lowest paid constituents? I dont believe that some of the high pay demands of politicians wishing to link their income to that of board rooms in the city is a legitimate claim at all.

    I'd think too if would be interesting if the public knew more about the earnings of private sector officials, I'm sure that the pay and conditions of boardroom execs is just as scandalous compared with that of politicians, although I'd say that presently its an issue for shareholders primarily.

  8. #58
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    The funny thing is that losing their salary wouldn't bother most politicians.

    Most already have enough money to get by even without the salary.

    What we need to focus on is the under the table goings on between big business and politics. We need to cut the problem off at the root. Campaigning. Election season is where the money needs to be spent, and here is where politics and big business become umbilically tied to one another. Business money sustaining the politician until he is elected. The politician is then in the pocket of the Business interest, and will (occasionally) put the interests of that benefactor ahead of those of the nation at large.

    We need to set gov't standards about how much money one can spend on campaigns at every level.

    That way those who pander to moneyed interests have no greater chance than those who can't.

    I would like to make the max amount of money one can spend fairly low, so that regular folks would be able to run.

    As tech gets cheaper, it will get cheaper and cheaper to get your message out there, so this plan could actually work.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    It's all about control. It seems like everyone who goes into politics, whether directly or indirectly is hungry for power. Though they would never admit it.
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  10. #60
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    DB, its still a get rich quick scheme in the UK, not every politician has the means but I do take what you mean, there are political classes, democracy is a form of dynastic rule.

    Politicians are in the pockets of business for a host of reasons, not just strict fiscal ones like obeying paymasters posing as lobbyists. They live in the same neighbourhoods for a start, join the same social clubs, send their kids to the same schools and frequent the same churches or social functions as the boardooms. Most of them want to get jobs as executives when they leave public office or be paid as speakers by the same people in their retirement. They are part of the same status group or social class or at least they try to be.

    I was shocked at some of the "keeping up with the jones" antics of Tony Blair and his consort that I read about in Affluenza, long after it was obvious that he and his followers had put sufficient distance between themselves and socialism and proven themselves business friendly.

    I'm not going to argue it, although I expect someone will, that even when government acts with undue benefice towards business that this ultimately benefits the nation more than when it acts with benefice towards special interests, such as state employees, unions, welfare claimants, gun lobbyists etc. because they behave differently.

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