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  1. #11
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Politicians are nasty, but their nastiness is reflective of the nastiness of those they govern.

    Our rulers will only be as good as we force them to be.

    When we focus on moral high grounds and not good governance, you get what we have right now.


    care to elaborate on the bolded part?

  2. #12
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    We ultimately try to elect those who remind us of ourselves.

    In a democratic republic like ours, what can be more reflective of a populace, the ethical standards it holds dear, and its inclination for either good or ill, than those, to whom are given, its consent to rule?

  3. #13
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    Than you for clarifying.

    When we focus on moral high grounds and not good governance, you get what we have right now.
    What I mean, is that we often try to criticize politicians on the way they live as people in their daily lives. And use that criticism of who they are, as an attack on their ability to effectively govern.

    This would be like me criticizing my mechanic for cheating on his wife, and then trying to tell him that that fact makes him a worse mechanic.

  4. #14
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    Those who are without sin, cast the first stone.

  5. #15
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    ^I agree with that. (see post #7)

    I think a lot of people who see themselves as focusing on moral high grounds also see themselves as focusing on good governance.

    You seem to have implied that one ought to pursue good governance over moral high grounds. Would you agree?

    If so, would you say that focusing on good governance is a form of focusing on the moral high ground, or would you say that governing is amoral?

    edit: you respond faster than I do! (the entire quote was italicized, so my [i.][./i] wrap was lost in the quote)

  6. #16
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    You seem to have implied that one ought to pursue good governance over moral high grounds. Would you agree?

    If so, would you say that focusing on good governance is a form of focusing on the moral high ground, or would you say that governing is amoral?
    I don't think one should have to choose one over the other.

    The problem, is that the election process is supposed weed out those of weak character, so that once they are in office, politicians can focus on writing good laws and not worrying about who they were caught in a picture with 2 weeks ago.

  7. #17
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    I think learning to put the needs of the country and one's constituents first (even ahead of one's own reputation and job security) is at the core of what it is to be a good politician.

  8. #18
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I don't think one should have to choose one over the other.

    The problem, is that the election process is supposed weed out those of weak character, so that once they are in office, politicians can focus on writing good laws and not worrying about who they were caught in a picture with 2 weeks ago.
    understood.

    but, just to play devil's advocate...

    vows and oaths are only administered on the most solemn, important occasions. If a politician can't keep his marriage vows, should we trust him to keep his oath of office?

    If one can't be faithful to his wife, if he can't set aside his self gratification in order to seek the good for his wife, should we trust such a vow breaker to keep his oath to the nation--or should he not pursue office, or should he step down from office if he breaks his vows?

  9. #19
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    vows and oaths are only administered on the most solemn, important occasions. If a politician can't keep his marriage vows, should we trust him to keep his oath of office?
    Can a Doctor not still be a doctor just because he cheated on his wife and has taken both the Hypocratic oath, and his marriage vows?

    Breaking one oath tells us nothing about one's proclivity or propensity to break another oath of an ENTIRELY different nature.

  10. #20
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    Point is, there was a time for the public to make attacks on one's character. That time was during the election.

    Once one has entered office, the real issues they are dealing with are so important, that it is UNAMERICAN to needlessly distract them from that with character attacks. Doing this not only hurts the politician, it hurts the nation.

    People need to grow up and let them do their jobs.

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