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  1. #111
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    So there is no limit whatsoever to what the government may do, if "the people" want them to do it? That is the antithesis of a constitutional form of government. Also, how would the Tenth Amendment be overruled by the Ninth, when they were ratified together as part of the Bill of Rights?
    We only have a constitution because the people decided we should have one. It wasn't written by God, you know. If we decide it doesn't work for us anymore, we can change it or replace it, as has been done many times before on the state level.

    When you add the Fourteenth to the equation, it fundamentally changes the relationship between the federal government and the state government. The Tenth is a truism which essentially stated what everyone already knew to be true - the federal constitution did not restrict the states, nor the people. However, the Fourteenth gets rid of the first part of that - the Constitution now does restrict the states, because we have equal protection under the law. The Ninth Amendment indicates that the people have rights existing outside of the enumerated ones. Consequently, when a person asserts a right under the Ninth Amendment, and this right is upheld, the states must also respect this right (like privacy), because of equal protection.

    The Tenth no longer applies in a meaningful way. Deal with it.


    There are still legitimate constitutional questions there. Nullification, especially.
    No there is not. Equal protection under the law. A state cannot nullify a federal law, because it would be denying its citizens equal protection under the law.

    The Constitution is the supreme law of the land. The people hold the sovereignty, but not even the people get to abridge rights. Sovereignty is not exercised simply through the ballot box. This is NOT a democracy.
    No, but we certainly can amend the Constitution, or elect politicians who interpret the Constitution in a certain way.

    The people trump all. This is not ideology, it is practical reality.

  2. #112
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    We only have a constitution because the people decided we should have one. It wasn't written by God, you know. If we decide it doesn't work for us anymore, we can change it or replace it, as has been done many times before on the state level.
    Change it or replace it, sure. Ignore it, no.


    When you add the Fourteenth to the equation, it fundamentally changes the relationship between the federal government and the state government. The Tenth is a truism which essentially stated what everyone already knew to be true - the federal constitution did not restrict the states, nor the people. However, the Fourteenth gets rid of the first part of that - the Constitution now does restrict the states, because we have equal protection under the law. The Ninth Amendment indicates that the people have rights existing outside of the enumerated ones. Consequently, when a person asserts a right under the Ninth Amendment, and this right is upheld, the states must also respect this right (like privacy), because of equal protection.

    The Tenth no longer applies in a meaningful way. Deal with it.
    Incorrect. The Fourteenth Amendment does not invalidate the Tenth. The Constitution already restricted the states after the Bill of Rights but before the Fourteenth Amendment. The relationship is now different, but the Tenth Amendment still has an important role. It's being defiled by atrocious executive branch policy and judicial branch decisions (look at the Commerce Clause).


    No there is not. Equal protection under the law. A state cannot nullify a federal law, because it would be denying its citizens equal protection under the law.
    So California's medical marijuana laws are patently unconstitutional?


    No, but we certainly can amend the Constitution, or elect politicians who interpret the Constitution in a certain way.

    The people trump all. This is not ideology, it is practical reality.
    Yes, we can AMEND the Constitution. Elected politicians are not supposed to interpret the Constitution, though. That is the purview of the judicial branch, and they screw it up all the time.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #113
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruthie View Post
    Honestly, no, I don't think so. Certainly there have been dishonorable politicians, but I truly believe that the overwhelming lot is - like everyone else - a mix of good and bad bound up with good intentions. That doesn't meet my standard for reflexive distrust.
    Power really does corrupt and what sets politics apart from most other professions is their power. People don't think much more of bankers, either.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #114
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    Thieves of a feather, flock together.

    Or, the easiest way to rob a bank is to own one.

  5. #115
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Power really does corrupt and what sets politics apart from most other professions is their power. People don't think much more of bankers, either.
    Power TENDS to corrupt. It's not automatic. Money doesn't corrupt, either. Money, power, fame. . . these things all magnify the traits that were already there. Good people who succeed become philanthropists. Bad people who succeed become ogres.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  6. #116
    Senior Member dga's Avatar
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    was berlesconi mentioned in this thread?

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