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  1. #101
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaybeLogic View Post
    what democracy?
    Hey I'll take democracy rather than homosexuality any day of the week.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Propaganda which is a singular instance against a regime of repetition?

    You think people THAT dumb?

    Pure assumption.
    As I write the Government of Canberra is engaged in a propaganda battle with our Federal Government about Civil Marriage.

    And as both sides use propaganda we have become a sophisticated audience of propaganda.

    And at times both sides use agitprop but no side has ever sunk so low as to use a ten year old boy.

  3. #103
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    As I write the Government of Canberra is engaged in a propaganda battle with our Federal Government about Civil Marriage.

    And as both sides use propaganda we have become a sophisticated audience of propaganda.

    And at times both sides use agitprop but no side has ever sunk so low as to use a ten year old boy.
    But then you're importing your circumstances into a foreign environment and assuming it's the same. That's why I said it was assumptive.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    But then you're importing your circumstances into a foreign environment and assuming it's the same. That's why I said it was assumptive.
    Sure, it's exactly the same debate about Civil Marriage that is being conducted in both countries.

    And interestingly, propaganda and agitprop is borrowed from both sides of the argument from one country to the other. So we are having the same argument.

    And it's reached the stage here where we have a State Government arguing with the Federal Government.

    And we know that the first mistake propagandists of either side make is to believe their own propaganda.

    And the second mistake is to think your propaganda is either true or false when it is plausible or implausible.

    But being blinded by their own propaganda, one side reached for the nearest weapon. And it just happened to be a ten year old boy.

    And as you know, all ten year old boys are emotionally and financially dependent on their parents and other adults.

    So their third mistake was to use a ten year old boy who is in their trust.

  5. #105
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Sure, it's exactly the same debate about Civil Marriage that is being conducted in both countries.
    An assumption which is built from the reasoning below.
    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And interestingly, propaganda and agitprop is borrowed from both sides of the argument from one country to the other. So we are having the same argument.
    Borrowing a line of a speech or thinking is not replicating the campaign. Some elements are the same is not equal to the whole campaign being the same.
    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And we know that the first mistake propagandists of either side make is to believe their own propaganda.
    Exactly why ALL assumptions should be highlighted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And the second mistake is to think your propaganda is either true or false when it is plausible or implausible.

    But being blinded by their own propaganda, one side reached for the nearest weapon. And it just happened to be a ten year old boy.

    And as you know, all ten year old boys are emotionally and financially dependent on their parents and other adults.

    So their third mistake was to use a ten year old boy who is in their trust.
    Now this is a huge assumption. It relies on you accurately guessing the parents motive, the mindset and capabilities of the child, the statistical probability that he conforms to the normal levels of independent wealth and, most criminally, that a child understands the impact of their parents. Personally I never took my father's opinions on board as my own unless they were validated by external sources... well at least not after I was able to ask why repeatedly

    The point being you're being declarative with assumed conclusions based on what can best be described as a poor analysis of probability.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    An assumption which is built from the reasoning below.

    Borrowing a line of a speech or thinking is not replicating the campaign. Some elements are the same is not equal to the whole campaign being the same.

    Exactly why ALL assumptions should be highlighted.

    Now this is a huge assumption. It relies on you accurately guessing the parents motive, the mindset and capabilities of the child, the statistical probability that he conforms to the normal levels of independent wealth and, most criminally, that a child understands the impact of their parents. Personally I never took my father's opinions on board as my own unless they were validated by external sources... well at least not after I was able to ask why repeatedly

    The point being you're being declarative with assumed conclusions based on what can best be described as a poor analysis of probability.
    Yes, you are right. I am making declarations based on assumptions. And I may well be analysing probability poorly.

    On the other hand judge what I say by propaganda.

    For instance, do I believe my own propaganda?

    Do I think my propaganda is right or wrong? Or do I recognise my propaganda is simply plausible or implausible?

    And most interestingly, do I, like Christopher Hitchens, enjoy making propaganda?

  7. #107
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Yes, you are right. I am making declarations based on assumptions. And indeed it may well be poor analysis of probability.

    On the other hand judge what I say by propaganda.

    For instance, do I believe my own propaganda?

    Do I think my propaganda is right or wrong? Or do I recognise my propaganda is simply plausible or implausible?

    And most interestingly, do I, like Christopher Hitchens, enjoy making propaganda?
    Yes, in part.
    Neither.
    Plausible.
    Probably.

    Why?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Yes, in part.
    Neither.
    Plausible.
    Probably.

    Why?
    Why? Well I have brought out my big propaganda guns and accused the opposition of child abuse.

    Remembering that as far as I am concerned this is neither true nor false.

    And that the proof of the propaganda pudding is in the eating. And so far no one has even answered the argument. And this may well be because it is plausible.

    And of course enjoyment is contagious so I can expect those who read my propaganda to enjoy it.

    You can't ask for more than that from propaganda.

  9. #109
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Why? Well I have brought out my big propaganda guns and accused the opposition of child abuse.

    Remembering that as far as I am concerned this is neither true nor false.

    And that the proof of the propaganda pudding is in the eating. And so far no one has even answered the argument. And this may well be because it is plausible.

    And of course enjoyment is contagious so I can expect those who read my propaganda to enjoy it.

    You can't ask for more than that from propaganda.
    There's no real case for abuse though as the child would have to show trauma. Surely the state could be sued for the same if your accusation were founded as making children sit there and recite something for the adults pleasure is precisely the same circumstance. In fact if taken far enough then any instruction or correction given would be abuse.

    Abuse of what I'm not sure.

    (I will remember to read your posts differently in the future.)
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    There's no real case for abuse though as the child would have to show trauma. Surely the state could be sued for the same if your accusation were founded as making children sit there and recite something for the adults pleasure is precisely the same circumstance. In fact if taken far enough then any instruction or correction given would be abuse.

    Abuse of what I'm not sure.

    (I will remember to read your posts differently in the future.)
    You seem to forget this is a world wide propaganda movement. For instance, as I write, it is tearing apart your Church of England.

    So this is far, far bigger than a little boy. And it seems to me that this little boy is being used by forces far larger than he. And indeed forces that are abusing their position of trust to use this little boy in their propaganda campaign.

    And I hope you won't just read my posts differently in the future. But I hope you will read most posts differently. For this is not a peer reviewed journal. Where it is not simple conversation, it is propaganda and rhetoric.

    But unfortunately propaganda and rhetoric are pejorative words in our society, although propaganda surrounds us in advertising and rhetoric in politics.

    So it would seem to be a good idea to learn what propaganda and rhetoric are, as we are surrounded by them here.

    Of course you can retreat to moralism and that will probably make you feel better but won't be better for you.

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