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  1. #71
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    But aren't you commenting more on the British government, since that's where you live?
    I don't know how different the British gov't is from the American gov't when you get down to brass tacks, but it's possible that what you're saying doesn't quite apply over here the way it does over there... unless you've been studying American politics?
    Pertaining to this specific area as far as I'm aware the only difference is that you vote in your leader specifically where as ours is internally elected by the party. Aside from that the differences are minimal though feel free to correct me.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #72
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    Democracy is like equipping a car with a dozen small engines each running a wheel in its own direction.
    I prefer even monarchy over democracy, to be quite honest. And i'm not a royalist by a long shot.
    A country - the world preferrably - needs a strong leader in order to reach full potential.
    Infighting has never been good for anything. If a leader could unite the entire world, anything could be built and accomplished.
    There would probably be great sacrifice for some, but it would be glorious for the human race to work as one single unit to accomplish great things like space exploration and ending famine/unemployment etc for good.
    No more economic interests at war.

    Democracy is conservatism and it is halting humanity's progression in favor of some twilight humanistic retard ideal.
    But isn't your suggestion like having a dragster as your city vehicle?

    Fast in a straight line, useless at direction changes and a pain in the backside for bringing home what you want.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  3. #73
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Pertaining to this specific area as far as I'm aware the only difference is that you vote in your leader specifically where as ours is internally elected by the party. Aside from that the differences are minimal though feel free to correct me.
    As far as I know, the candidates are elected internally by the party, but then we get to vote someone in from among the candidates they chose. Theoretically, we could do write-in votes for another candidate, but in practice many of the ballots aren't designed to allow it.

    Also, we have both a popular vote, and an electoral vote. We do elect the electors, though. Meaning, we vote, but the electoral college also votes, BASED on our vote. If the Electoral college decided to vote differently from our own votes, theirs would matter more. Most states obligate "winner take all" for their electoral votes, but some don't, and the electors can technically decide whatever they choose.

    In other words, we vote, but the Electoral college chooses the president. If they thought our decision was very poor, they could choose not to go along with it. In other words, in the case of a third-party candidate getting too many votes, the college might well decide to go with whichever of the two main parties got the most votes instead.

    America is really run by the corporations and the media. The government is just a figurehead that tries to cater to their interest and keep things safe for business, and the citizens halfway placated.

  4. #74
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    Democracy is like equipping a car with a dozen small engines each running a wheel in its own direction.
    I prefer even monarchy over democracy, to be quite honest. And i'm not a royalist by a long shot.
    A country - the world preferrably - needs a strong leader in order to reach full potential.
    Infighting has never been good for anything. If a leader could unite the entire world, anything could be built and accomplished.
    There would probably be great sacrifice for some, but it would be glorious for the human race to work as one single unit to accomplish great things like space exploration and ending famine/unemployment etc for good.
    No more economic interests at war.

    Democracy is conservatism and it is halting humanity's progression in favor of some twilight humanistic retard ideal.
    How exactly would your ideal monarchy work?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #75
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Pertaining to this specific area as far as I'm aware the only difference is that you vote in your leader specifically where as ours is internally elected by the party. Aside from that the differences are minimal though feel free to correct me.
    The election of our leader sounds a lot like your system, too, since our Electoral College elects our leader... not a majority vote.

  6. #76
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    The election of our leader sounds a lot like your system, too, since our Electoral College elects our leader... not a majority vote.
    To be fair, we do directly elect the Electors, though.

    It's almost a copy of the ancient Roman system, modified by influences taken from the ancient Athenians, English "Common Law," and the Enlightenment, honestly. All free citizens (though the definition was much more restrictive back then) were allowed to vote for Senators to represent provinces (I think indirectly, by voting for lower officials who could become Senators), who would elect two "Consuls" to serve for one year at a time instead of a President.

    Interestingly enough, I think I heard somewhere the citizens actually voted directly for Consuls to help the citizens feel they were being heard, but that the Senate actually elected them.

  7. #77
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    As far as I know, the candidates are elected internally by the party, but then we get to vote someone in from among the candidates they chose. Theoretically, we could do write-in votes for another candidate, but in practice many of the ballots aren't designed to allow it.

    Also, we have both a popular vote, and an electoral vote. We do elect the electors, though. Meaning, we vote, but the electoral college also votes, BASED on our vote. If the Electoral college decided to vote differently from our own votes, theirs would matter more. Most states obligate "winner take all" for their electoral votes, but some don't, and the electors can technically decide whatever they choose.

    In other words, we vote, but the Electoral college chooses the president. If they thought our decision was very poor, they could choose not to go along with it. In other words, in the case of a third-party candidate getting too many votes, the college might well decide to go with whichever of the two main parties got the most votes instead.
    I think we're digressing.. I mean't only that we vote in the conservative party for example, who leads them is out of our control. You guys vote specifically for a person.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    America is really run by the corporations and the media. The government is just a figurehead that tries to cater to their interest and keep things safe for business, and the citizens halfway placated.
    Even corporations are for the people, by the people.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #78
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    But isn't your suggestion like having a dragster as your city vehicle?

    Fast in a straight line, useless at direction changes and a pain in the backside for bringing home what you want.
    Now you are confusing system of government with system of economy.
    I don't like plan economies anymore than anyone. Things should be based on supply and demand, but without being governed by reckless speculation in stocks.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    How exactly would your ideal monarchy work?
    There's not much "ideal" about monarchy... If I had to choose, i'd probably pick a Confucian model. A country needs some sort of hand-picked governing council. Based on merit, not popularity. I don't think the people should have much influence over it, because they lack merit. Meritocratic dictatorship.

    I am not saying that those over the people should oppress them. Hell no. People should be kept in line when it comes to important things like cooperation instead of competition and a bunch of other things like controlled procreation(otherwise the world will become over-populated in no-time).

    Other than that, it wouldn't be much different from a modern western society.
    It would in fact be pretty closely related to what China is evolving into.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  9. #79
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    Now you are confusing system of government with system of economy.
    I don't like plan economies anymore than anyone. Things should be based on supply and demand, but without being governed by reckless speculation in stocks.
    Well the two are kind of best buddies are they not? You always get one messing with the other.
    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    There's not much "ideal" about monarchy... If I had to choose, i'd probably pick a Confucian model. A country needs some sort of hand-picked governing council. Based on merit, not popularity. I don't think the people should have much influence over it, because they lack merit. Meritocratic dictatorship.

    I am not saying that those over the people should oppress them. Hell no. People should be kept in line when it comes to important things like cooperation instead of competition and a bunch of other things like controlled procreation(otherwise the world will become over-populated in no-time).

    Other than that, it wouldn't be much different from a modern western society.
    It would in fact be pretty closely related to what China is evolving into.
    Who decides what constitutes merit?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #80
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    I think we're digressing.. I mean't only that we vote in the conservative party for example, who leads them is out of our control. You guys vote specifically for a person.
    Ah, yes, that's true. Although many of us just vote along party lines anyway. There's actually an option on our ballots to just vote the straight party line, and most people do that. There's only one candidate for each party anyway... so the process is more transparent. That's the real advantage... it's harder for them to pull a fast one on us, they have to show us more of what they're doing before we make a decision us than they do there.

    Even corporations are for the people, by the people.
    Actually, that's true, come to think of it. Corporations might very well have more of the American spirit than the Government, ironically enough.

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