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  1. #91
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    I have to admit I know nothing about this Ms Palin but you did have what to all intents and purposes looked like a rather low intelligence monkey in charge of all of them for a while.

    Oh and good ideas kill just as many it's just people think it's worthwhile.
    Then we just get into a circular argument over what's good and what's bad, and blah blah blah - pointless to go down that road.

    Someone get an admin in here...

    Actually I grew up in the sticks.. not what you mean't but it made me chuckle
    Ya, very different. Rural America is almost unparalleled in the developed world.

    The statement relates more to war than everyday struggles. It basically asserts that those who haven't fought for their freedom have not paid their dues, they are parasites.
    State of nature. Social contract.

    Diverging what now?

    *runs off to research*
    Aha!... most assuredly. I'm so sick of saying to people "why not look at voting liberal or green?" to be met each time with the response of "they'll never get in". Narrow minded, short sighted, dim witted sheep!!
    Maybe, but they intuitively know what's empirically the case - game theory dictates that single member districts end up as two party systems.

    Not really no... just depressing... deeply depressing...

    See democracy relies on people giving two nutshells about the government and the country really and that just doesn't hold up to reality. Now legally requiring people to vote, that system has promise.
    How would that not lead to government by Pop/American Idol?

    I don't get where you're going with this.. I'll use my fingers like normal?
    Where are you going to get your food from?

    I'm a firm believer in the unexamined life being not worth living and I'm tired of fixing problems which could have been avoided if people used the muscle between their ears.
    One of the things I've been learning on this site and about personality in general is that many (perhaps most) just don't function in that way. If men were angels, we would already live in anarchy.

    I don't mind people who aren't bright but those who just won't use it irritate me. And yes I realise the duplicity... it's just my objections and more logical and right
    What evolutionary purpose does philosophy serve?

    Tick, tick, boom!!

    It would end up with a new government and one that would perhaps be a little more respectful towards it's power base? I so wish the same would happen to banks. They need a lesson in the idea of "YOU have NO money you arrogant little straight jacket. You have MY money. I, in part, OWN your useless ass!".
    Or it might end up in mob rule or that of mafia-style strongmen, since society will desperately crave stability at that point. There's a reason why the Taliban arose in Afghanistan when the Russians left a power vacuum.

    Extend your bank analysis a little further, and you've got the start of Marxist criticism.

    Just shoot them. Sod elitist society, just wipe out the hangars on. It's much more efficient.

    And that's the end of Marxist policy.

  2. #92
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Not true. Martyrs can be positive and not due to pissing someone off... well not specifically. I'm thinking wartime here...
    There are no martyrs in war. You're fighting for one thing and one thing alone on the battlefield - the life of the men fighting with you, the lives of your loved ones, and your own life at the lowest priority. No one ever killed a man over an ideal in war. You kill or be killed.

  3. #93
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Ya, very different. Rural America is almost unparalleled in the developed world.
    That's because it isn't in the developed world. Not all of America is.
    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    State of nature. Social contract.
    Statement. Theory. Disconnected.


    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Maybe, but they intuitively know what's empirically the case - game theory dictates that single member districts end up as two party systems.
    Peh. Trends.
    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    How would that not lead to government by Pop/American Idol?
    More importantly why would it? The Aussies don't seem to be being lead by a pair of muppets with too much gel.
    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Where are you going to get your food from?
    What are you, my mother? Wherever.
    There was food before society and humans. Quit trying to be awkward.
    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    One of the things I've been learning on this site and about personality in general is that many (perhaps most) just don't function in that way. If men were angels, we would already live in anarchy.
    Dime bar?
    If men were... well then we could live in anarchy... what's your point?
    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    What evolutionary purpose does philosophy serve?
    To give the knackered out and lame ones something to do whilst the rest of us did the work?

    It's analysis of thought and how to approach life and it's problems, it's not a formulaic thesis dictating methodology but more teachings on how to produce a successful methodology yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Or it might end up in mob rule or that of mafia-style strongmen, since society will desperately crave stability at that point. There's a reason why the Taliban arose in Afghanistan when the Russians left a power vacuum.
    And if the people rise up? Isn't that why there's a load of hicks with guns in the states? So they can "vote" country style?
    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Extend your bank analysis a little further, and you've got the start of Marxist criticism.

    And that's the end of Marxist policy.
    Never studied any of the Marx brothers... sorry.
    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    There are no martyrs in war. You're fighting for one thing and one thing alone on the battlefield - the life of the men fighting with you, the lives of your loved ones, and your own life at the lowest priority. No one ever killed a man over an ideal in war. You kill or be killed.
    Technicalities of nomenclature not intent nor effect.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  4. #94
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    That's because it isn't in the developed world. Not all of America is.
    Indisputable. They don't want to be, either.

    Statement. Theory. Disconnected.

    Does it work?

    Peh. Trends.
    We live in the quantum world. Trends are the closest things to hard facts that exist.

    More importantly why would it? The Aussies don't seem to be being lead by a pair of muppets with too much gel.
    They still have a two-party system. Candidates get chosen through the party apparatus. In effect, you have the same results of the British system with more voters.

    What are you, my mother? Wherever.
    There was food before society and humans. Quit trying to be awkward.
    Where are you going to get it from?

    Dime bar?
    If men were... well then we could live in anarchy... what's your point?
    If most people actually thought reasonably about how to govern ourselves, we wouldn't need government in the first place. Government exists because people tend to not do this. They'd rather just do their work and take care of their family, and only speak up when they feel that government is impairing their ability to do this.

    To give the knackered out and lame ones something to do whilst the rest of us did the work?

    It's analysis of thought and how to approach life and it's problems, it's not a formulaic thesis dictating methodology but more teachings on how to produce a successful methodology yourself.
    So, how does that aid reproduction, other than impressing women with your wit?

    And if the people rise up? Isn't that why there's a load of hicks with guns in the states? So they can "vote" country style?
    The hicks love their chains. Those, and not their guns, are what make them feel safe. They'll be too busy killing anyone not like them to actually turn on their oppressors. It's a pathetic cycle.

    They have guns because shooting stuff is fun. Nothing more.

    Never studied any of the Marx brothers... sorry.
    That's it, THIS MEANS WAR! *SLAM*

    Technicalities of nomenclature not intent nor effect.
    Intent and effect are irrelevant, and often fantastic or fabricated. On the 91st anniversary of the end of the conflict that should have taught us that war is nothing but a stupid, pathetic meat grinder, the fact that we still try to justify mass slaughter and glorify those who are most effective at it is disheartening, at best.

  5. #95
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Does it work?
    As in you quoted the titles of two entire theories without connecting it to what was being discussed or even locating which point of those theories you were trying to highlight.

    Too much input!!! (And it's not often I say that except to my ESTP wife when she tries to download her day verbally!!)
    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    We live in the quantum world. Trends are the closest things to hard facts that exist.
    A implies B does not imply that B implies A.

    Just because the firmest thing we have is trends does not mean that trends are anything but the squishy statistics that they are made up from. And I do mean made up.
    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    They still have a two-party system. Candidates get chosen through the party apparatus. In effect, you have the same results of the British system with more voters.
    Freedom is not the power to effect change, only to chose to try.
    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Where are you going to get it from?
    I forget why this even became an issue...
    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    If most people actually thought reasonably about how to govern ourselves, we wouldn't need government in the first place. Government exists because people tend to not do this. They'd rather just do their work and take care of their family, and only speak up when they feel that government is impairing their ability to do this.
    Governments exist to handle the big picture which people miss. They are not needed in most cases to intrude... the problem is they think they are. Hence the whole "you can't drive without a seat belt" rubbish but allowing motorcycles. It's insane.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clarkson
    The government tells you that speed kills and then taxes you when you prove them wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    So, how does that aid reproduction, other than impressing women with your wit?
    I get the intelligent chicks?

    Why even link it to reproduction so basically? Chance favours the prepared mind and all that jive. With philosophy you are better prepared. Simples.
    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    The hicks love their chains. Those, and not their guns, are what make them feel safe. They'll be too busy killing anyone not like them to actually turn on their oppressors. It's a pathetic cycle.

    They have guns because shooting stuff is fun. Nothing more.
    What about the constitution and the whole right to bear arms... even if some do take the mickey and wear armless shirts even though EVERYONE would prefer it if they covered up more.
    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    That's it, THIS MEANS WAR! *SLAM*
    I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it.

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Intent and effect are irrelevant, and often fantastic or fabricated. On the 91st anniversary of the end of the conflict that should have taught us that war is nothing but a stupid, pathetic meat grinder, the fact that we still try to justify mass slaughter and glorify those who are most effective at it is disheartening, at best.
    Oh I don't know... if you send people to die for their country then the least you could do is pat the successful ones on the back. It's just good manners.

    Now the generals is a different matter.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #96
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Sometimes I do think that democracy isn't the best way. I wonder if an enlightened monarch or at least a government run by philosophers wouldn't be better sometimes.

    Basically, let the best people rise to the top and stay there rather than have everything run by mob rule.

    But alas, corrupt people always get in eventually, and the government always turns oppressive and useless in such scenarios.

    So I guess we're stuck with democracy.

    By the way, I think your signature says, "heart to heart talk" in Latin, but I haven't studied it in years. Am I right?

    This. The OP reminds me of every "OMG THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT DOING WHAT I WANT, THAT CLEARLY MEANS EVERYONE IN THE COUNTRY EXCEPT ME IS STUPID" conversation I've ever had the displeasure of participating in.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  7. #97
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    This. The OP reminds me of every "OMG THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT DOING WHAT I WANT, THAT CLEARLY MEANS EVERYONE IN THE COUNTRY EXCEPT ME IS STUPID" conversation I've ever had the displeasure of participating in.
    I don't think it would hurt to limit voting to those who demonstrate at least a moderate understanding of the prevailing issues. If you can't do something as simple as point to Afghanistan on a map, do you really know enough to cast an informed vote?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #98
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I don't think it would hurt to limit voting to those who demonstrate at least a moderate understanding of the prevailing issues. If you can't do something as simple as point to Afghanistan on a map, do you really know enough to cast an informed vote?
    Since when was being informed a prerequisite for voting? Elections are won and lost by the decisions of tens of millions of completely uninformed people.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  9. #99
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    As in you quoted the titles of two entire theories without connecting it to what was being discussed or even locating which point of those theories you were trying to highlight.
    The entirety of it. You give up the state of nature and its freedoms to accept the protections of society in exchange for restricting yourself to society's bounds. Exerting proscribed actions in the public sphere is a breach of this contract, to which society is owed damages.

    Too much input!!! (And it's not often I say that except to my ESTP wife when she tries to download her day verbally!!)

    A implies B does not imply that B implies A.

    Just because the firmest thing we have is trends does not mean that trends are anything but the squishy statistics that they are made up from. And I do mean made up.
    It does raise a correlative connection, however. Why would any sort of system other than a two-party system arise, given that the ceteris paribus odds of winning in a single-member district will never exceed .5?

    Freedom is not the power to effect change, only to chose to try.
    That's nice and all, but what does that do for you? What does that do for anyone? Why wouldn't a society in which trying to bring about change is heavily punished be as free as one where it is tolerated under this standard?

    I forget why this even became an issue...
    Because if you simply refuse to comply with society, you're not going to have access to the means of survival.

    Governments exist to handle the big picture which people miss. They are not needed in most cases to intrude... the problem is they think they are. Hence the whole "you can't drive without a seat belt" rubbish but allowing motorcycles. It's insane.
    You have a very optimistic view of people.

    I get the intelligent chicks?
    Maybe.

    Why even link it to reproduction so basically? Chance favours the prepared mind and all that jive. With philosophy you are better prepared. Simples.
    Everything's related to reproduction.

    What about the constitution and the whole right to bear arms... even if some do take the mickey and wear armless shirts even though EVERYONE would prefer it if they covered up more.
    They love "Gawd" and "Jhee-susah" much more than that. They ignored the 15th Amendment for a century. They only respect the 2nd because it justifies what they already agree with.

    I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it.


    Oh I don't know... if you send people to die for their country then the least you could do is pat the successful ones on the back. It's just good manners.

    Now the generals is a different matter.
    Nothing wrong with injury awards, nor valor and heroism for saving fellow soldiers' lives. Awards for killing fifty of the enemy, on the other hand? Detestable.

  10. #100
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    No the history is tradition, the reality is that the government controls the economy to a certain extent. Plus if the government doesn't want the economy to have problems then they have to be nice to businesses to some degree.

    I think my local Jesus is up to the job.

    Him or hypnotoad

    You forgot ruthlessness... you always forget ruthlessness... tsk tsk.
    OF COURSE i'm up to the job. No, honestly. I know my limitations.
    Being a world leader is not on my agenda, i'm way too scandalous, outspoken and I don't have the right mind for it.
    Don't get me wrong, I can be good at other things. Managing groups on a Major's level rather than a General's level is preferred.
    Honestly, if I ever go back into the army - if my knee allows for it in the future - and rise to the rank of Major, I won't leave that sweet spot no matter what they pay me or how much they want to promote me.
    At least I think so. As a major, there's still field work. Beyond that, the only field work you'll do is ceremonies and a crapload of paperwork. Talking to suits. Politics. Ewwww...

    Anyway. Merits... Sorry for the long off topic thing there.

    Yes, but isn't ruthlessness an integral part of efficiency?
    To be ruthlessly effective? But it can't be excessive, either...
    God, I sound like i'm turning into an ENFJ.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

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