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  1. #81
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    This whole line of argument is stupid, folks. Bush didn't "create the educational" (though he did make it more expensive and not any better) and Obama didn't put the economy in the toilet (though he is not doing a very good job with it now). There are many factors at play in the economic crisis and our mediocre primary and secondary school performance as a nation. Government ineptitude and bad policymaking are high on the lists of reasons for both, but you can't tie those things to one person alone.
    And you can't tie it to one party or ideology. Everyone is at fault for the fact that out educational system is in decline.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #82
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelric View Post
    Yes - absolutely. I've got a friend with a chronic condition who *can't* quit her job - her health care and prescriptions are linked to her employment, and were she to get another job, she couldn't get coverage (preexisting condition). So it's stay with her current employer or be driven into permanent financial ruin - if not worse.

    Not cool.
    I dont think she is going to do much better under socialist healthcare. How old is she?

  3. #83
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    And you can't tie it to one party or ideology. Everyone is at fault for the fact that out educational system is in decline.
    I thought it was just the fault of Teachers Unions and people who like to lower standards so our students dont "feel bad" for being stupid.

  4. #84
    Senior Member avolkiteshvara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    No argument there; they can start by getting rid of counter-productive regulations (such as no buying health insurance across state lines, no co-ops, etc), implementing and enforcing anti-trust and anti-monopoly regulations [no arguments on that point, ajblaise], reigning in the trail lawyers, and so on, so that they could find out what the health market really is. After that, tax credits toward the purchase of private health insurance can be explored.
    I don't disagree with any of that. But you have a public who see their peers in other industrialized countries who aren't going bankrupt from lack of health insurance.

    I think we're done fucking around.

  5. #85
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by avolkiteshvara View Post
    I don't disagree with any of that. But you have a public who see their peers in other industrialized countries who aren't going bankrupt from lack of health insurance.

    I think we're done fucking around.
    Yeah well fortunately most of our public sees the long waiting lines, suicide help, INSANE taxes, and reduced standard of living most people "enjoy" in countries with socialist governments. So the fucking around will continue because we arent all sold on the idea of reducing what we already have in favor of a few people at the bottom getting free drugs.

  6. #86
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Does anybody else think that getting health coverage through work is a stupid idea in the first place?
    It's a horrible idea and we have the government to blame for this one. If Congress didn't make employer provided health insurance tax exempt, insurance would have never become tied to employment in the first place. And why did Congress do this? Not for the good of the country, no, they did it for votes. They didn't even bother to investigate the potential long term consequences of their policy decision.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #87
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    Yes lets supplant 1000s of "monopolies" with one gigantic government run one. Brilliant!
    The nations with single-payer health care are among the healthiest places in the world.

    World's Healthiest Countries - Forbes.com

    Even free-market bastions like Singapore have it. Get with it, man.

  8. #88
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    who cares. just do it.

    same thing for centuries is boring anyways. if its bad, we can always reverse it.

    live a little. i thought america was a place where traditions can be discarded, and possibly reinvented after experimentation. where's the experimentation?

  9. #89
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    The nations with single-payer health care are among the healthiest places in the world.

    World's Healthiest Countries - Forbes.com

    Even free-market bastions like Singapore have it. Get with it, man.
    They also have a LOWER standard of living than we do. Whats your point? I don't want to give up my freedom, my electronics, my life so I can have the government mother me to death. What the hell kind of measurable quantity is that anyway?

    Oh if thats the case the USA is a more happy nation with larger penis sizes.

  10. #90
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    who cares. just do it.

    same thing for centuries is boring anyways. if its bad, we can always reverse it.

    live a little. i thought america was a place where traditions can be discarded, and possibly reinvented after experimentation. where's the experimentation?
    It died when we all decided we wanted to live in a stable country and not have to overthrow our government every 20 years?

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