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  1. #131
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dga View Post
    since you are so travelled, where have you been? America is second rate compared to western europe when it comes to construction, health, and food quality.
    For health, I would agree. However, I haven't seen much in the way of food quality nor construction being better in Europe.


    Visit germany. The water does not taste like chlorine, the food is not laden with corn syrup or genetic mutations (how about that, a tomato actually tastes like tomato and not water!), the houses do not fall down after 30 years, good are still exported, and if you get sick or injured, you are not financially fucked.
    The tap water in the Philadelphia suburbs where I grew up was delicious, as were all dairy products. Here in California, the produce is outstanding. And I've never been to a country with crappier food than the UK. France and Germany seemed to have delicious food everywhere.


    Why is it that we never see so much opposition from those against health care for all when it comes to military spending?
    You're asking the wrong contingent here. This question is completely rhetorical when addressed to libertarians.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  2. #132
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    What a blindly condescending attitude.
    He said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    They voting on whether or not to rob me to pay for people who have made shitty choices in their lives.
    That's bullshit. That's a slap in the face to people who weren't born into privilege.

    Look at his words: "people who made shitty choices"
    Let's look at this recipe:
    • (1) child born into a home where their parents are not functionally literate (a surprisingly high portion of the population)
    • take said child; place them in kindergarten five years behind the other kids who were read to from infancy
    • now that this never-read-to-child is in school, let's see how well they learn on a malnourished diet
    • child goes home from school to their apartment in a noise-polluted community with planes constantly flying overhead, which is highly correlated to poor school performance because humans need moments of silence for their brains to develop and be able to concentrate
    • watch child struggle through the education system
    • child perseveres and graduates high school with honors
    • child applies to college but ailing parent's medical bills are too much and they choose (NOTE: here is one of those "shitty choices" he references) to find a no-degree-necessary job because the short-term needs are too demanding for their family. They choose to support their loved ones who need help
    • life happens as they work to support loved ones, they can never afford a college degree
    • they never get decent medical insurance themselves because they can't get a good enough job to get it because they can't afford college;
    • their lack of medical insurance means they don't get routine checkups and suddenly what could have been easily dealt with is not attended to by a medical professional until things are dire and they require hospitalization
    • perhaps their preexisting medical condition prohibits them from health care once they get medical help


    I haven't even factored in race here, which is undoubtedly an obstacle when it comes to moving up in the world. Even with the most race-friendly workplace, everyone wants to hire someone they can identify with, and how easy is it to find common ground when the business owner comes from a family who lived in the 'burbs, went to guitar lessons and traveled to different cities on family vacations and the applicant came from the projects, cannot speak "correctly," and didn't grow up with a computer or books at home to identify much with higher class culture?
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    He said:



    That's bullshit. That's a slap in the face to people who weren't born into privilege.

    Look at his words: "people who made shitty choices"
    Let's look at this recipe:
    • (1) child born into a home where their parents are not functionally literate (a surprisingly high portion of the population)
    • take said child; place them in kindergarten five years behind the other kids who were read to from infancy
    • now that this never-read-to-child is in school, let's see how well they learn on a malnourished diet
    • child goes home from school to their apartment in a noise-polluted community with planes constantly flying overhead, which is highly correlated to poor school performance because humans need moments of silence for their brains to develop and be able to concentrate
    • watch child struggle through the education system
    • child perseveres and graduates high school with honors
    • child applies to college but ailing parent's medical bills are too much and they choose (NOTE: here is one of those "shitty choices" he references) to find a no-degree-necessary job because the short-term needs are too demanding for their family. They choose to support their loved ones who need help
    • life happens as they work to support loved ones, they can never afford a college degree
    • they never get decent medical insurance themselves because they can't get a good enough job to get it because they can't afford college; perhaps their preexisting medical condition prohibits them from health care; they become parents with chronic health problems themselves


    I haven't even factored in race here, which is undoubtedly an obstacle when it comes to moving up in the world. Even with the most race-friendly workplace, everyone wants to hire someone they can identify with, and how easy is it to find common ground when the business owner comes from a family who lived in the 'burbs, went to guitar lessons and traveled to different cities on family vacations and the applicant came from the projects, cannot speak "correctly," and didn't grow up with a computer or books at home to identify much with higher class culture?

    I am not saying he was correct. I was saying that YOUR attitude of "the fact that you are saying this clearly means you have never read anything to the contrary" is condescending and baseless. I've read Marx and taken Sociology and of Race and Racism and still am a libertarian, because it's obvious a lot of that is junk.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #134
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I am not saying he was correct. I was saying that YOUR attitude of "the fact that you are saying this clearly means you have never read anything to the contrary" is condescending and baseless. I've read Marx and taken Sociology and of Race and Racism and still am a libertarian, because it's obvious a lot of that is junk.
    There's nothing wrong with libertarianism. His "shitty choices" comment is nothing short of insulting to a lot of people who are suffering and struggling.


    I take issue with, not even his ignorance of realities like what I bulleted in the previous post, but the fact that he's placing onus on those born without privilege to not make "shitty choices" as if they had any real choice to make. Sure, some people move up in the world by way of hard work. A lot of people at the bottom who work hard don't move up in the world, though.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  5. #135
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    I got a PM asking about the noise pollution, so if anyone else is interested as well:

    Background

    Exposure to environmental stressors can impair children's health and their cognitive development. The effects of air pollution, lead, and chemicals have been studied, but there has been less emphasis on the effects of noise. Our aim, therefore, was to assess the effect of exposure to aircraft and road traffic noise on cognitive performance and health in children.

    Methods

    We did a cross-national, cross-sectional study in which we assessed 2844 of 3207 children aged 9–10 years who were attending 89 schools of 77 approached in the Netherlands, 27 in Spain, and 30 in the UK located in local authority areas around three major airports. We selected children by extent of exposure to external aircraft and road traffic noise at school as predicted from noise contour maps, modelling, and on-site measurements, and matched schools within countries for socioeconomic status. We measured cognitive and health outcomes with standardised tests and questionnaires administered in the classroom. We also used a questionnaire to obtain information from parents about socioeconomic status, their education, and ethnic origin.

    Findings

    We identified linear exposure-effect associations between exposure to chronic aircraft noise and impairment of reading comprehension (p=0·0097) and recognition memory (p=0·0141), and a non-linear association with annoyance (p<0·0001) maintained after adjustment for mother's education, socioeconomic status, longstanding illness, and extent of classroom insulation against noise.
    Aircraft and road traffic noise and children's cognition and health: a cross-national study
    The Lancet, Volume 365, Issue 9475, Pages 1942-1949
    S.Stansfeld, B.Berglund, C.Clark, I.Lopez-Barrio, P.Fischer, E.Öhrström, M.Haines, J.Head, S.Hygge, I.van Kamp
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  6. #136
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    There's nothing wrong with libertarianism.
    Now, let's not get ahead of ourselves here

    His "shitty choices" comment is nothing short of insulting to a lot of people who are suffering and struggling.
    Which it's supposed to be. It's clear that he thinks he's superior to those people.

    I take issue with, not even his ignorance of realities like what I bulleted in the previous post, but the fact that he's placing onus on those born without privilege to not make "shitty choices" as if they had any real choice to make. Sure, some people move up in the world by way of hard work. A lot of people at the bottom who work hard don't move up in the world, though.
    But it's a just world we live in, and God rewards the good and punishes the evil.

  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    There's nothing wrong with libertarianism. His "shitty choices" comment is nothing short of insulting to a lot of people who are suffering and struggling.


    I take issue with, not even his ignorance of realities like what I bulleted in the previous post, but the fact that he's placing onus on those born without privilege to not make "shitty choices" as if they had any real choice to make. Sure, some people move up in the world by way of hard work. A lot of people at the bottom who work hard don't move up in the world, though.

    Yeah, he also made a comment earlier in the thread like "you're welcome non-tax payers" as if he was completely ignorant of the fact that many, many uninsured Americans are, in fact, employed full-time, work as hard or harder than he does, and are therefore tax payers just like he is.

    In fact, everything he said so far makes him look about as educated as Archie Bunker. Don't let him upset you too much.

  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    There's nothing wrong with libertarianism. His "shitty choices" comment is nothing short of insulting to a lot of people who are suffering and struggling.


    I take issue with, not even his ignorance of realities like what I bulleted in the previous post, but the fact that he's placing onus on those born without privilege to not make "shitty choices" as if they had any real choice to make. Sure, some people move up in the world by way of hard work. A lot of people at the bottom who work hard don't move up in the world, though.

    A lot of people born at the top aren't equipped for success after a spoiled childhood, too. I happen to believe that there is more agency for success than you seem to believe. A lot of people at the bottom DO make shitty choices. Is that completely their fault? No, clearly not. Bad family situations, drugs, crappy schools, and more all conspire against the bright but poor). However, you can't (and, more importantly, SHOULDN'T) try to level everything out through society. Everyone should get a shot, but you can't make people be successful.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  9. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    A lot of people born at the top aren't equipped for success after a spoiled childhood, too. I happen to believe that there is more agency for success than you seem to believe. A lot of people at the bottom DO make shitty choices. Is that completely their fault? No, clearly not. Bad family situations, drugs, crappy schools, and more all conspire against the bright but poor). However, you can't (and, more importantly, SHOULDN'T) try to level everything out through society. Everyone should get a shot, but you can't make people be successful.
    Why not?

  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Yeah, he also made a comment earlier in the thread like "you're welcome non-tax payers" as if he was completely ignorant of the fact that many, many uninsured Americans are, in fact, employed full-time, work as hard or harder than he does, and are therefore tax payers just like he is.

    In fact, everything he said so far makes him look about as educated as Archie Bunker. Don't let him upset you too much.
    The more incisive argument would be that people who don't make enough to pay income taxes already qualify for Medicare. The system sucks the worst for younger people fresh out of school (although they tend not to be sick a lo) and for lower-middle-class parents who don't get coverage through work. These people definitely pay taxes.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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