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  1. #111
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by avolkiteshvara View Post
    Pssst You already live in a country with socialist practices.


    You really think people aren't dying earlier because they can't afford healthcare? Dying from preventable diseases that could've been caught with a routine checkup.
    Wait you think there is going to be routine checkups in socialist health care? ha ha ha. *IF* you are lucky enough to get a checkup scheduled 6 months from when you want it, I wouldn't expect it to be exactly thorough with the huge lines and decreased amount of doctors. And you are using a slippery slope argument, we have some socialism so more is ok? Disagree. If we execute 1 criminal shouldn't we just start executing children who misbehave in school too?

  2. #112
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    Give me California's federal taxes back. Kentucky, Mississipi, Kansas, North Dakota, etc... all these states take in more federal money than they put in. California is a loser in federalism.

    Each Californian pays 2,000 dollars every years in federal taxes to subsidize poorer states. The buck stops here?

    Either way, lets not discuss whats wrong with the wasteful practices of the medical industry at all. Because it hurts too much to think about that.
    Fuck yeah give me Connecticuts back too, we pay more taxes than most of everyone else.

  3. #113
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    I think if government did away with the tax exemptions employers get with providing insurance and instead transfered that tax exemption to the individual, about half our problem would be solved.

    The other half would involve breaking up trusts and giving tax credits/aid/whatever to people with pre-existing conditions, or to insurance providers that accept people with preexisting conditions.

    It may not be perfect, but it might not end with bloody revolution.
    What's interesting about this is one of the few issues where I actually agreed with McCain was this. He wanted to sever the tie between employment and health insurance by eliminating the tax exemption and giving EVERYONE a tax credit for health insurance purchases. People didn't understand what he was actually proposing, they freaked out and demonized him over it.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #114
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    Fuck yeah give me Connecticuts back too, we pay more taxes than most of everyone else.
    No way dood.

    California pays $80 billion every year, more in federal taxes than federal services received. It breaks all records for all states.

  5. #115
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Are you saying that there's a conspiracy to hide a cure for cancer?
    No dood. The best way to make money for a corporation, is not always in the interest of maximizing the public health efficiently. I guess being a former silcon valley banker makes me think more in terms of innovation infrastructure, being thats mostly a west coast thing, so we have different levels of understanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    What are you talking about? Research isn't 100% private right now.

    What makes you think Congress' goal is to make health care more efficient? Congress has two primary goals, which often oppose each other:

    1. To appease campaign contributors/lobbyists
    2. To appease constituents

    Think about how this applies to the health care issue.
    I don't really buy into this Washington DC paradigm. All that matters is the people's will. And thats all that should matter.

  6. #116
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    No way dood.

    California pays $80 billion every year, more in federal taxes than federal services received. It breaks all records for all states.
    I think he meant that Connecticut is near the top of the list of individual tax burdens as a state.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #117
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I think he meant that Connecticut is near the top of the list of individual tax burdens as a state.
    per person, yeah, i think its up there.

  8. #118
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    No dood. The best way to make money for a corporation, is not always in the interest of maximizing the public health efficiently. I guess being a former silcon valley banker makes me think more in terms of innovation infrastructure, being thats mostly a west coast thing, so we have different levels of understanding.
    First you say that corporations are hiding the cure for cancer, and now you say that profit motive does not always favor serving the public interest (as though that somehow proves your point). Do you not see the massive logical gap between your statements?

    I don't really buy into this Washington DC paradigm. All that matters is the people's will. And thats all that should matter.
    Your view is far too idealistic.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #119
    Senior Member wank's Avatar
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    I simply disagree with this whole 'medical via government' on the premise that I don't believe that's what the government should be getting it's nose into. Simply, I don't see it as a fundamental right. Perhaps a sympathetic right, but not fundamental,... and it's something that the market already has a product for.

    They(government body who too often acts to create positive emotions towards campaigns or to move money through coorporations rather than to create positive effects for everybody involved[the people]) are shifting the markets to favor short term inexpense, which I see as favoring long term loss in quality(lower precedent for medical research due to expenses being more difficult to cover leads to a stagnation, where had otherwise been the case[drug companies always looking for something new to sell] something positive may have come faster), and as being something akin to price fixing, which leads in some form or other to booms and busts(bad for maintaining a stable economy), leads me to be troubled with this.
    A coarse description to be sure, some apologetic statement would usually go here.
    Everyone is a case study.

  10. #120
    Senior Member dga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    Let me ask you this, have you EVER traveled abroad?
    since you are so travelled, where have you been? America is second rate compared to western europe when it comes to construction, health, and food quality.

    Visit germany. The water does not taste like chlorine, the food is not laden with corn syrup or genetic mutations (how about that, a tomato actually tastes like tomato and not water!), the houses do not fall down after 30 years, good are still exported, and if you get sick or injured, you are not financially fucked.


    Why is it that we never see so much opposition from those against health care for all when it comes to military spending?

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