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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Suicide: The Warrior's Way.
    Maybe in Japan. After dishonor, of course.

    Was this guy even a combat vet? Every thing I read says no.

  2. #42
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Maybe in Japan. After dishonor, of course.

    Was this guy even a combat vet? Every thing I read says no.
    There's this thing called Mean World Syndrome. Being an army psychiatrist sounds like a perfect place for it. They need more psychiatrists for their psychiatrists, I guess.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  3. #43
    Senior Member Chunes's Avatar
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    Ooh, sign me up to be a meta-psychiatrist. Sounds fun.
    "If you would convince a man that he does wrong, do right. But do not care to convince him. Men will believe what they see. Let them see."
    Thoreau

  4. #44
    Senior Member millerm277's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    You know it's nothing I love more than knee jerk and lightening quick emotional reactions, but can we wait a minute before we start hating him please?
    Nope. If he committed suicide, I could have sympathy for him. If he killed someone who's been harassing him, I might even be capable of sympathy for him. When he kills pregnant women and other people at random, I have no sympathy for him. Actually, I have only hatred and disgust for him. I hope he lives a nice long life in solitary confinement, he doesn't even deserve the freedom of death. (He'll be getting it promptly though anyway, he isn't insane enough to have that let him off the hook).
    I-95%, S-84%, T-89%, P-84%

  5. #45
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I like the way when you're not immediately outraged that you're somehow on the wrong side of right.

    This is first hand information I get from my job from clinical and longitudinal studies done at NIH and the major mental health care organization I work: The military does an absolutely horrible job of taking care of the mental and emotional health of soldiers. Is this a surprise? Shoot and kill. Have a problem with that? Man up!

    From what I'm reading he was trying to get out of the military and was very vocal about the discrimination and mental problems he was experiencing. I cannot tell you how many VA and civilian psychologists and psychiatrists I work with that are inundated and totally unequipped to deal with the amount of PTSD and depression vets are experiencing and even combating the stigma within the military about seeking help for your issues that are combat related. Combat related PTSD is the number one area that I work with my mental health care professionals about because the soldiers aren't getting any help and they need to find ways to treat and reach those who treatment the most. The military is honorably discharging a lot broken people.

    My protest lies within the fact that guy going batshit is the result of a severely broken mental health care system within the military. Of course this guy is in control of his own actions and what he did is inexcusable. But what is he the product of? Would it be better if he was one of the hundreds of soldiers who committed suicide to cope with their issues? Does that make the issues go away?
    I agree with you that the health care we give soldiers is inadequate, but what are you suggesting? That they don't make an example of him?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #46
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millerm277 View Post
    Nope. If he committed suicide, I could have sympathy for him. If he killed someone who's been harassing him, I might even be capable of sympathy for him. When he kills pregnant women and other people at random, I have no sympathy for him.
    Yeah, as long as our out-of-control crazy people use a little logic about how they apply their crazy, right?

    But yes, I do think it would be better if he had committed suicide instead. That's just simple math. Even better would be if he had been identified as being at risk and treated before hurting anyone, including himself.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  7. #47

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    At least MSNBC did a better job of reporting this than the Herald Sun here in Australia. The Herald-Sun mentioned the Muslim part as many times as they could and had a special picture of the gunman in Muslim clothing. I'm not sure you could try harder to misrepresent a story.

    Overall I think it's pretty sad that the guy got to this stage, and even more sad for all the victims and their families. If for no other reason, having some understanding of the killer's motives and what drove him to it can help stop it happening again. There's been a few of these sort of shootings happening in America recently.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Ruthie's Avatar
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    I don't really care if he opposed the war, he's in the military: his country gave him an assignment and his personal thoughts and feelings are not relevant. No human being is a robot, but he is/was a soldier. It's not complicated.

    And I say that as someone who has opposed the Iraq war from the beginning, protested against it, and have at best been skeptical of the execution of the war in Afghanistan.

  9. #49
    Senior Member millerm277's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruthie View Post
    I don't really care if he opposed the war, he's in the military: his country gave him an assignment and his personal thoughts and feelings are not relevant. No human being is a robot, but he is/was a soldier. It's not complicated.
    Well said. I have close friends who hate the war with a passion (and are in the military), and if called up, they will still go and serve their duty. It's what they signed up to do, even if they don't like it, they will fulfill it. Secondly, he's a freaking psychiatrist, he's going to sit in base all day and do the same thing he did here...it's not like you could even say he has to shoot his fellow muslims. Maybe having to hear stories about soldiers doing that is too much for him, but if he can't be detached, I'd question why he ever became a psychiatrist.
    I-95%, S-84%, T-89%, P-84%

  10. #50
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Default Holsworthy and Fort Hood

    Of course they tried the same thing here - they tried to attack the Holsworthy Army Base in Sydney, Australia.

    The Australia Federal Police caught them before they had commenced their slaughter on the base and brought them before the Criminal Court.

    The trial went on for a very long time and cost 58 million dollars so they had plenty of time to tell us why they wanted to publicly slaughter us after we had given them a home and security.

    They were completely unrepentant and felt they were doing what Allah wanted and where Mohammed had shown the way. They told us they had been told by Allah through the Koran and the life of Mohammed to carry out jihad and martyrdom against Dhimmi and Infidels.

    But the Criminal Court thought that jihad and martyrdom were no excuse for the mass slaughter of their fellow Australians so they were convicted and sentenced to prison.

    But what was striking was the silence of their fellow muslims at their criminal convictions.

    And I was pleased to read in the newspapers that your slaughter at Fort Hood was not the result of Islamic terrorism, even though he kept shouting, "Allahu Akbar", as he murdered, but simply a lone crazed gunman, because I understand that violent Islamic terrorism has proved counter productive and now the strategy is internal subversion.

    It may prove more effective.

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