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  1. #421
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    You Americans are really obsessed with race, whether in one way or another.


    That's funny, because the person who got me passionate about race was French! :P

    French-Viet, at least.

  2. #422
    man-made neptunesnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    You Americans are really obsessed with race, whether in one way or another.
    As much as we hate to admit it, we are. Race plays such a significant role in American culture, core principles, etc - another thing we hate admitting.

    In other words, American racial politics is


  3. #423

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    Race is important in the US in a way that I cant understand here in NI, its easy to argue against racism here because there's not that much diversity or divided neighbourhoods or anything like that. I think of it as some how paralleling the sectarianism which exists and matters a lot here. Everyone is someone else's "other", "stranger", "enemy". Until they are not.

    Although I will say that I've seen on those police camera shows footage of white reports reporting from black neighbourhoods during unrest who've got their asses royally kicked along with their camera crews only because of their colour, not trying to invalidate structural or institutional racism at all but you may not care about race, you may not count it as important and you may even have progressive egalitarian views but that wont matter to the trigger men to which it matters a great deal who'll attack you just the same.

  4. #424
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    It's been a while since I applied for any grants or scholarships, but I remember, distinctly, several scholarships at the school I attended were limited by race. Basically, if you identified yourself as "white" on your FAFSA, you could not apply. I don't recall anything like that for grants.
    Yes, there are any number of institutional, usually merit based, scholarships that have a criteria for race and/or ethnicity(and everything else under the sun too). But what do you mean if you identified as "white" you basically couldn't apply? Who do you think gets those scholarships for people who can claim German, Irish, British, Scottish, Swedish, Jewish, or Polish heritage? What about the surfing, golf, and tennis scholarships, or the horseback riding scholarships; who do you think gets most of those? And I'm sure we can at least agree that scholarships going to descendants of the Confederacy go to white males.

    Almost half of all white males go to college. With 80% of the country identifying as "white", how could there possibly be a scholarship explicitly exclusive to "white males"?You can't just say "white male scholarship" and be serious. Being a white male in college is almost a given, no matter how costly it all is; and with all of that, most white men still get through it all, with incomes that are, on average, $20,000 higher than that of black men.

    Anyway...

    Every last one of my closest "white" friends in college and high school got Federal Aid during one or more semesters. I think about half of all college students(most of whom are white) receive at least Federal Aid at the undergraduate level, and even more at the graduate level.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feops View Post
    Discrimination is only fine if it applies against white males.

    It's tiring really. As a white male I lost out on a ton of financial incentives offered to women and "minorities" (non-whites) to get through post-secondary education. It also hurt my chances to get a good job because the government offers incentives for equitable employment. If I had started a business I would have lost out on a great deal more.

    I understand why these incentives are in place. The government paints with a broad brush in an attempt to leverage disadvantaged segments of the population. But on a personal level it is frustrating to absorb a handicap based on race and gender while at the same time being raised in a society sensitive to racism and sexism.
    Yes, institutional racism impacts everyone negatively, including "white" people. Your problem should be with institutional racism and the people who support it explicitly and implicitly, not with minority scholarships and equitable employment standards used to combat it in support of the people who are repetitively disadvantaged by the system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
    yeah, the college thing was what really pissed me off. With a lot of these scholarships and grants, it doesn't even matter if you're poor, you just have to be born a certain way. So, someone who's from an upper middle class family of a non-euro ancestry gets grants while I've been working my way through college for four years and, at this rate, still have four years to go. I still haven't gotten one single "white privilege" check.
    There are thousands of scholarships and grants for American people of European ancestry.
    There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

  5. #425
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post
    I suppose I agree with you (albeit conditionally).

    *I hope this was a little coherent. I'm so
    Yays was late at night for me too so I was hoping I was making sense and not just digging myself a nice little hole.

    That being said, I haven't actually noticed *ANY* racism of any kind around where I live, in terms of the typically ascribed fashion of "zomg we hates blacks >=O " or anything like that. Perhaps it's just because I'm in an area where there's alot of blacks, asians, and french, most of which came here to avoid the oppression that was on them in the states.

    So I dunno, I just don't really actually think about it most of the time; a black person's just a person, doesn't matter whot colour their skin is. And same as with almost everyone, I'll give them a few chances to prove themselves to not be total idiots or jerks, they'll fail every test like everyone else does, and then I'll dislike the person based on the merits they themselves have provided as an individual.

    I have nothing against "other races". I just hold a grudge against "the human race" is all.

    There's always exceptions to the rule though, people can genuinely turn out to be really nice people. It doesn't matter if yeu're black or white or yellow or orange or purple or gnomish or... alright no, I confess I have a major hatred of gnomes in WoW. DAMN THEM GNOMES >=O

    That doesn't count though, because it's a character race yeu actively pick and yeu chose because of several reasons. This implies something about yeur thought process just by being a gnome. Real racism doesn't do that because yeu didn't "choose" to be born, and I've known people who act pretty much the same with no discernable differences before really.

    However... there is admittedly an element of fear when dealing with people of different races. Especially when I was working at a call center that covered the states... and this is when people play "the race card".

    "Oh well yeu just hate me because I'm black >=O "

    Erm... I'm on a telephone... I can't even SEE yeu, I have no clue whot colour yeur skin is. Durrr. And yes, because the whole point of a company policy is to uniformly ensure everyone follows exactly the same rules so that noone's being mistreated, the fact that I'm enforcing company policy on yeu the same as I do to every single other person means I'm actively out to get yeu. *SLAP*

    Those are the people who irritate me most. I hate having to live in a minor amount of fear when dealing with people of a different race because of the worry that they will try to make me out to be some horrible racist bigot when I'm nothing of the sort. Everyone has the capacity to be an asshat regardless of skin colour, and everyone has the ability to be pants on head retarded, also regardless of skin colour. Prove to me yeu're neither of these and we'll get along fine, also regardless of skin colour. If yeu fail the minor tests I present to yeu, then that's yeur personal problem, not yeur races'.

    Sorries got off track there, but my point is that dealing with different races does leave me stuck with a minor bit of fear, that someone's going to haul off a 'race card' on me during one of their tantrums just because I'm like pale as a ghost white. That, I imagine, is whot most minorities probably felt back when they were being heavily oppressed. Fear that someone will pick on them just because of their race.

    That being said though, I don't take kindly to people abusing their minority status, or their race, or anything else, to get things they want. Even moreso, I take it exceedingly poorly when someone attempts to demonize me or directly attack my personal honour just so they can get something for free in their pathetic grasping at straws. I go out of my way to avoid stepping on people's toes and to make sure I treat people pretty much all the same way until they give me reason to do otherwise, and accusing me of bigotry is a fast lane to find out I have nothing against yeur race, I just hate *YEU* as a waste of flesh of a person, and am reasonably sure the rest of yeur race thinks yeu're an idiot as well.

    (that wasn't directed at anyone, just realized my generic broad description of 'talking to someone like that' sounds kinda like I may be implying someone in particular here... I haven't noticed anyone really stress their ethnicity in that way here. There's still a few jerks and idiots running around but they haven't been associated with race)



    Aaaand I'm ranting again I think. Yay for first thing in the morning rant before I even have breakfast. This's literally the first thing I did after getting out of bed. Well not including getting semi dressed.

    In any case, minorities aren't really all that different than the majority, to be honest. Most of them are pretty much the same with one or two minor cultural differences that generally gets overlooked. I've never noticed anyone around here being a bigot, nor have I noticed any reason around here for anyone to be one.

    Then again, that may just be due to being far east coast canadian; our birth rate is so low over here that we literally don't have a sustainable population... if we didn't have masses of immigrants we'd literally breed ourselves out of existence. I currently live in a major port city, there's alooooot of asians and aloooooot of blacks running around. I haven't really honestly noticed any difference, other than different accents, ways of speaking, or sometimes different languages. They're just "people". People can be good, or people can be bad. Sooner we get used to the fact that "the person" is an individual, not a group or organization, the better.

  6. #426
    man-made neptunesnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    That being said, I haven't actually noticed *ANY* racism of any kind around where I live, in terms of the typically ascribed fashion of "zomg we hates blacks >=O " or anything like that.
    That sort of blatant racism still happens on occasion - though not as common anymore since it's socially frowned upon - while more subtle forms occur much more often. It's completely intertwined in the fabric of our culture, but since that's the "cool" kind of racism (racial jokes, stereotypes, exercising and boasting white privilege, etc) it'll probably be sticking around for a while. *eyeroll*

    Perhaps it's just because I'm in an area where there's alot of blacks, asians, and french, most of which came here to avoid the oppression that was on them in the states.
    You're Canadian?
    From what I hear Canadian racial politics are better but not by much.

    So I dunno, I just don't really actually think about it most of the time
    Well, you have the privilege of not having to think about it, but okay I'm still with you to a point.

    a black person's just a person, doesn't matter whot colour their skin is.
    Good, so do I.

    I do find it daunting though when some whites after they've said something like the above feel as if they deserve a cookie or some reverence because apparently we owe them something for regarding us as human beings. Needless to say, we don't owe them anything, and they should already be regarding us as such.

    I can't tell you how many times I've gotten the "I don't tell racial jokes around you. Shouldn't that be enough? We've given you your president. Shouldn't that be enough? You don't appreciate that we allow you to be a part of our society. You blacks are not gracious." as if this country isn't ours as well.

    And However... there is admittedly an element of fear when dealing with people of different races. Especially when I was working at a call center that covered the states... and this is when people play "the race card".

    "Oh well yeu just hate me because I'm black >=O "

    Erm... I'm on a telephone... I can't even SEE yeu, I have no clue whot colour yeur skin is. Durrr. And yes, because the whole point of a company policy is to uniformly ensure everyone follows exactly the same rules so that noone's being mistreated, the fact that I'm enforcing company policy on yeu the same as I do to every single other person means I'm actively out to get yeu. *SLAP*
    Unfortunately, there are some black people who pull out the race card unecessarily, and that's wrong but to be frank it is much more prevelant for the white community (and sometimes a few blacks who were granted special membership into "whiteness" through socioeconomic means or otherwise) to accuse blacks of pulling out the race card because they as white people have found nothing offensive about a comment, movie, situation, etc. even though the black community has expressed that it is, in fact, offended. I think that is much more of an issue.

    Moreover, there are also other "indicators" that someone is "black" without their skin color being seen (I used quotations to highlight that I don't particularly believe in assigning these things to certain races but many people in our country do): speech, social status, name, job, level of education, so on.

    Those are the people who irritate me most. I hate having to live in a minor amount of fear when dealing with people of a different race because of the worry that they will try to make me out to be some horrible racist bigot when I'm nothing of the sort.
    I'm sorry, but I think this is your problem. If you aren't racist, don't hold racist ideas, and don't say or do racist things, then you have nothing to worry about. Simple as that.

    What I find ironic is that when someone doesn't know something about an issue or topic: the Iraq war, heat transfer, the Attorney General, whatever, and someone points out that they are ignorant on the topic, they generally express that they aren't very knowledgable on the subject (unless they're NT ) and show an interest in wanting to learn about it. However, a pattern I've noticed in race relations is when someone doesn't understand a particular culture, or group of people, he blames that group of people or that culture as if they're culpable for his ignorance. I don't see how that makes sense.


    Sorries got off track there, but my point is that dealing with different races does leave me stuck with a minor bit of fear, that someone's going to haul off a 'race card' on me during one of their tantrums just because I'm like pale as a ghost white. That, I imagine, is whot most minorities probably felt back when they were being heavily oppressed. Fear that someone will pick on them just because of their race.
    I hope you realize that there is still intense racism today. I still feel the burden of it, as do many other minorities. I know when you say "back then" you're refering to racism fifty, sixty years ago that was more explicit; however, modern racism is more subtle so as to make the "racial inferiors" feel crazy and paranoid when no one else can interpret why a movie or comment of a prominent public figure, for example, was offensive and belittling even though they can.

    That being said though, I don't take kindly to people abusing their minority status, or their race, or anything else, to get things they want.
    Ha, you make "minority status" sound like the penthouse suite.


    In any case, minorities aren't really all that different than the majority, to be honest.
    Well, yeah.

    Most of them are pretty much the same with one or two minor cultural differences that generally gets overlooked.
    And I'm sure they try to overlook some of your cultural differences as well.
    Last edited by neptunesnet; 01-31-2010 at 11:28 PM.

  7. #427
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post
    That sort of blatant racism happens on occasion still (though not as common anymore since it's frowned upon), although more subtle forms occur several times a day. It's completely intertwined in the fabric of our culture, but that's the "cool" type of racism (racial jokes, stereotypes, exercising and boasting white privilege, etc)
    I've been told on this forum that the racism is now in people's heads but just not shown on the outside. Included in that argument I've heard that it doesn't really matter what your beliefs or situations are, if you are white you are racist. I've heard all races call black people who are educated and speak correctly "almost white." Black people who are republican told they shouldn't be because of their race, or that they are faking who they are to fit in with white people. Racism is still ugly, it's just changed a lot over the years.

    I don't doubt that traditional racism is still out there but it isn't as prevelant as it used to be. Often I think "racism" is just by "group" and race isn't factored into it as much as "us vs. them" no matter what race someone is.

  8. #428
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post
    I do find it daunting though when some whites after they've said something like the above feel as if they deserve a cookie or some reverence because apparently we owe them for regarding us as human beings. needless to say, they should already be thinking this way. We don't owe them anything.

    I can't tell you how many times I've gotten the "I don't tell racial jokes around you. Shouldn't that be enough? We've given you your president. Shouldn't that be enough? You don't appreciate that we allow you to be a part of our society. You blacks are not gracious."
    This seems dumb, this line of thinking. It shouldn't be "we" and "you." I mean, I haven't done anything to you (unless it was across this forum, and in that case, I don't remember) but then again I don't remember doing anything for you. You're not "Blacks", you're just some random person on the internet. Considering it any other way seems silly.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  9. #429
    man-made neptunesnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    I've been told on this forum that the racism is now in people's heads but just not shown on the outside. Included in that argument I've heard that it doesn't really matter what your beliefs or situations are, if you are white you are racist.
    That wasn't what I was implying nor do I believe that is true. If it were, my grandfather, my father, and I would be inherently racist (and for me not racist all at the same time), and I don't think that's possible. Further, one doesn't have to be racist to say or do racist things, although doing or saying something racist does contribute to the institution of racism as one little piece of the puzzle, whether intended or not.

    To clarify, I care about people, not just black people and other minorities. It's why I'm still posting. Racism is just another form of objectification, which sucks for everyone. I don't want that. I do, on the other hand, think we all want for the most part the same thing (harmony, unity, equality...), but how to attain it? In my earlier posts, it seemed to me rather clear that I've only been reporting on the state of things as they are now and not as they should be, although I'm much more comfortable and more willing to talk about the latter. Interesting, no one has asked me about that one yet.

    I've heard all races call black people who are educated and speak correctly "almost white." Black people who are republican told they shouldn't be because of their race, or that they are faking who they are to fit in with white people.
    It's unfortunate that happens, but I don't partake in that. I've even been the victim of the "you talk white" comments. Few things make me angrier. They're quite insulting.

    Racism is still ugly, it's just changed a lot over the years.
    Well, that was my point. Racism has a new face.

    I don't doubt that traditional racism is still out there but it isn't as prevelant as it used to be.
    Pretty sure I said this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    This seems dumb, this line of thinking.
    Tell me about it. :rolleyes2:

    It shouldn't be "we" and "you." I mean, I haven't done anything to you (unless it was across this forum, and in that case, I don't remember) but then again I don't remember doing anything for you. You're not "Blacks", you're just some random person on the internet. Considering it any other way seems silly.
    That was my point. I used understatement to make it.

    Were you missing my point or are you agreeing with me in your post?
    Last edited by neptunesnet; 02-07-2010 at 09:46 PM.

  10. #430
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post
    That was my point. I used understatement to make it.

    Were you missing my point or are you agreeing with me in your post?
    I think I was agreeing with you but because I just woke up when I wrote that post it's possible that I completely missed your point in my tiredness.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

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