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  1. #361
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaunward View Post
    The impression I was given was that you were attributing me with saying that I believe all "white pride" is reactionary. Then you seemed to go from there.

    Well, you first ticked me off because you said "I've only ever heard of 'white pride' being in a response to some sort of other ethnic pride." It seemed like you made up your mind or something. But I was willing to just ask you to clarify (albeit rudely). I wasn't going to completely attribute the stance that you definitely thought it was reactionary after you clarified in the next post... But I still wanted to know what you meant on being open to ideas.

    Umm.. anyhow, man. Hope that's clear. I don't really know your viewpoint exactly, but I suppose you know mine. I think they're assholes hellbent on purification. Not healthy for the rest of us..

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    There's actually a good point hidden here.

    Are those who espouse white pride ideals generally of higher socioeconomic status?
    No, they are usually of inferior socioeconomic status, which triggers the compensatory behavior. Not a coincidence.

  3. #363
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circle View Post
    No, they are usually of inferior socioeconomic status, which triggers the compensatory behavior. Not a coincidence.
    Generally, those who espouse white pride ideals are of inferior socioeconomic status and usually have little education. That said, most whites of higher socioeconomic status with a great deal of education tend to believe and act on white pride ideals. They are just scared/terrified of minorities as they are of the poor in general.

    Edit: The only difference is that educated, middle to top class whites are less likely to be vocal about their beliefs of superiority. Education, class, income don't have anything to do with it.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  4. #364
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circle View Post
    No, they are usually of inferior socioeconomic status, which triggers the compensatory behavior. Not a coincidence.
    Which was pretty much the point of my subsequent post.

  5. #365
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    I can't see the point in having pride in any random uncontrollable demographic or other circumstance.

    I always thought accomplishments in life were a better thing to have a pride in than random conditions that you had no control over, but I guess people need something to have pride in.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #366
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    I'm a minority and I believe there should be "white pride". However, if it's just an excuse to be racist....then no. It shouldn't matter if they make up the majority. I think they should be allowed to express pride in their cultures. It seems ironic how its really awesome for minorities to express their pride but when whites do it, it tends to be looked down upon.

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rez View Post
    Well, you first ticked me off because you said "I've only ever heard of 'white pride' being in a response to some sort of other ethnic pride." It seemed like you made up your mind or something. But I was willing to just ask you to clarify (albeit rudely). I wasn't going to completely attribute the stance that you definitely thought it was reactionary after you clarified in the next post... But I still wanted to know what you meant on being open to ideas.

    Umm.. anyhow, man. Hope that's clear. I don't really know your viewpoint exactly, but I suppose you know mine. I think they're assholes hellbent on purification. Not healthy for the rest of us..
    Yes, that is the only time I've heard the explicit expression 'white pride.' I wasn't discussing (nor meaning to infer) the idea of racially-purist motivated ideologies. Yes, those exist on all spectrums. If some are the reason for part of the expression 'white pride,' I accept that statement as being likely true. I didn't make the statement to be some great statement, just a mere observation. This is especially true in context when I continued to discuss policy legitimatizing racial discrimination. I think the reactionary response would reverse the (perhaps) intended effect.

    If I ticked you off, then you get ultimately upset too easily.

    My view is that I don't really care about race in itself. I care about culture, having a bias for anglo-american culture. I care about class, identifying more with those of my socioeconomic class. Certainly some races are more likely to be associated with one or the other, but I don't discriminate/care about the race itself.

  8. #368
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    ^Fair enough man

    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    I'm a minority and I believe there should be "white pride". However, if it's just an excuse to be racist....then no.
    I agree that there should be some pride too. It'd just make more sense if it was specific. Lets say, if I was Irish and had some close connection to my family in Ireland, and got to visit, then hell yeah, I'd be proud of that. It's not something we'll all see, especially through those particular eyes and conditions. Sounds fun.

    Unfortunately, most white supremacists don't speak of such things. It's like the other guy above said.. just vague shit, random conditions and factors, and past national accomplishments they never partook in.

  9. #369
    man-made neptunesnet's Avatar
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    No*, because minority pride is a direct response to marginalization of a people. It doesn't have much to do with superiority so much as a need to balance or neutralize a more prevalent perception. The "Black is Beautiful" movement of the 60s, for example, suggested that "black" wasn't perceived to be beautiful in the first place and had to be stated as such in order to be thoroughly accepted and incorporated into the country's psyche. It should actually read (to deter misinterpretation) "Black is also beautiful." On face value and without any contextual information the phrase does appear to support "black" as being the only type of beauty, but that wasn't the intent.


    *I haven't read the entire thread. I'm replying to the title question and indirectly addressing of the points mentioned in other posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaunward View Post
    Say the majority of a society was a bunch of people 8 feet tall. Say this group of tall people lived in tall homes, drove tall automobiles, ate tall meals, drank tall drinks. Say then that a minority of the society was short, 4 foot tall people. These people were no less people and potentially every bit as capable as the tall people. They were simply shorter.

    However, these shorter people, they lived in the tall society. They had difficulty reaching to the top shelves in grocery stores, reaching the gas pedals in tall cars, seeing films being played in the cinema. Is this discrimination? No. This is the market (whether free or not) producing a majority of goods/services for the majority of consumers.

    Should a government come and impose grocery stores must have shorter shelves so the talls must bend down more often? Should the tall cars be produced with a smaller frame making the talls more cramped? No, I don't think so. That's cutting off your nose to spite your face.
    This is a) a false analogy - assuming you were comparing the shorter people in the scenario to racial minorities - and b) oversimplification of a rather complex social construct. You also disregarded that there is no inherent difference between minorities and whites and that there are more minorities collectively than there are whites (the supposed majority).

    Worse than a tyranny of the majority is the tyranny of the politically correct. The consequences of being a minority are unavoidable. As long as one group is recognised as a majority, there must be one or some minorities.
    Sure, but I can't help but feel that this is used as justification for selfishness and lack of concern because you happen not to lie in a "minority," at the moment.

    The sooner we start thinking of people as people and not europeans, africans, asians et cetera, the better.
    And the sooner we stop stripping everyone of his or her individuality, the better.

    There's nothing wrong with someone seeing themselves as American or Croatian or Kenyan if they are. Ethnicity and nationality play a vital part in our identity. The problem, though, arises only when ethnicity becomes the whole of an identity.

    Racially discriminatory policy (such as affirmative action) ultimately only legitimizes, legally, the racist sentiments some individuals carry.
    You're wrong to assume that impoverished minorities are on an equal playing field with middle-class whites in the workplace (i.e, more quality education provided in formative years, earlier exposure to words and numbers, etc).
    Last edited by neptunesnet; 01-29-2010 at 06:53 PM.

  10. #370
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post
    No*, because minority pride is a direct response to marginalization of a people. It doesn't have much to do with superiority so much as a need to balance or neutralize a more prevalent perception. The "Black is Beautiful" movement of the 60s, for example, suggested that "black" wasn't perceived to be beautiful in the first place and had to be stated as such in order to be thoroughly accepted and incorporated into the country's psyche. It should actually read to deter misinterpretation is "Black is also beautiful." On face value and without any contextual information the phrase does appear to support "black" as being the only type of beauty.


    *I haven't read the entire thread. I'm replying to the title question and indirectly addressing of the points mentioned in other posts.



    This is a) a false analogy - assuming you were comparing the shorter people in the scenario to racial minorities - and b) oversimplification of a rather complex social construct. You also disregarded that there is no inherent difference between minorities and whites and that there are more minorities collectively than there are whites (the supposed majority).



    Sure, but I can't help but feel that this is used as justification for selfishness and lack of concern because you happen not to lie in a "minority," at the moment.



    And the sooner we stop stripping everyone of his or her individuality, the better.

    There's nothing wrong with someone seeing themselves as American or Croatian or Kenyan if they are. Ethnicity and nationality play a vital part in our identity. The problem, though, arises only when ethnicity becomes the whole of an identity.



    You're wrong to assume that impoverished minorities are on an equal playing field with middle-class whites in the workplace (i.e, more quality education provided in formative years, earlier exposure to words and numbers, etc).
    All of this!
    There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

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