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  1. #11
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    Ummm, you have statistics like these:

    Pollution carbon dioxide per capita (most recent) by country

    Pollution municipal waste per capita by country. Definition, graph and map.
    Well, before we can even get into statistical analysis, we need to make sure the facts are accurate and dispositive in the situation at hand.

    Until we have a concerted global effort to analyze climate change, we really don't know whats going on.

    But, even though the data you provided shows America as the lead producer of pollution, we are still spending a disproportionate amount of resources to combat global climate change relative to the rest of the world.

  2. #12
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    If that is the definition of NIMBY-ism then I don't see why it needs to be combated. People are going to act like people no matter what the gov't tells them.

    NIMBY-ism is already being combated by the differing views of the American public.

    It is NOT the gov'ts place to combat the THOUGHTs of the populace.

    I like living in a country where I can think whatever the hell I want to.
    Hell yeah! Agreed.

    In theory the issue I described should be outdated since it is now possible to transfer electricity en-masse through a modern power grid. Put the reactors in the desert or uninhabited mountainous area and split as many atoms as you want.

    I'm actually for this considering many cities can jack their utility prices whenever they want, and still claim to have not "raised taxes." Luckily I live near a hippy power cooperative.

  3. #13
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    I was discussing this with a professor on mine this morning.

    I think we are currently witnessing a shift in American Politics as we know it. The last century or so has shown us the debilitating effects of extreme partisanism. This is obviously exacerbated by the our two party system.

    I believe that we are about to see the rise of an American three party system, which would then set the stage for the creation of a four party system.

    The way things currently break down, it seems like like like there are about (these are ballpark figures and are just being used to prove the concept)

    30% moderate democrats
    30% moderate republicans
    20% extreme democrats
    20% extreme republicans

    The moderate republicans would be inclined to join the LP (that I envision not necessarily as it currently exists).

    The moderate democrats would just stay Democrats.

    The extreme republicans can stay Republicans.

    The extreme democrats could create a socialist party and just get it over with.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Ruthie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    What do you mean by this?
    Trying to figure out how far you would take the globalization argument. Do you believe that international borders should be obsolete?

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruthie View Post
    Trying to figure out how far you would take the globalization argument. Do you believe that international borders should be obsolete?
    No. I see an international body functioning like the US government did under the articles of confederation.

    We would remain autonomous, maintain our language etc. etc.

    The international organization would just serve mostly as an international court to air issues that arise between nations, and enforce initiatives that foster global health (such as fighting poverty, human rights violations, gov't corruption, big business corruption, fighting infectious disease etc. etc.).

    Basically, the organization would allow for countries to focus on domestic policy without having to police the world.

  6. #16
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Interesting.

    Is it possible to eliminate parties all together and vote on issues, or do you think that is oversimplification?

    I personally do not like "bundled beliefs" whether they are political or religious.

    I don't know how you could operationalize a system that was entirely issue based, I guess just mass referendums?

    Also, I think some common sense checks and balnces need to be in place, regardless of the number of political parties, such as:

    (1) Hang all lobbyists. We have 3 branches of government, not 4.

    (2) Term limits, term limits, TERM LIMITS!!! Representatives and Senators need to have a profession again, as in the days of the founding fathers...

    (3) The Supreme Court needs to act as a real check and balance against abusive Executive authority. They are touted as being a check and balance, but I can't recall any significant instances in my lifetime that they have acted as such.

    I'm independent too, and voted for Obama. No way in hell I would have voted for any Republican in this last election. 4 more years like the last 8? No thank you.

  7. #17
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    Is it possible to eliminate parties all together and vote on issues, or do you think that is oversimplification?
    I do not think that is an oversimplification. And this may be were governance is headed. We eventually may be able to do away with parties. But only if we provide the people with clear simple unbiased information about proposed legislation.

    Change comes slow or not at all, and if death of parties were to happen, I doubt I would see it within my lifetime.

    However, people generally don't give a shit about politics. Thinking is hard and most people will avoid doing it at all costs. I think people like political parties because they are like the training wheels of political thought.

    The problem arises when one tethers themself to party doctrine without thinking about how the party's opinion on things and their own differs.

    The two party system aggravates this issue b/c the choices are so starkly different from one another. These days your extreme no matter which party you align yourself with.

    The intellectual laziness in the American populace would be greatly eased if they had options they felt were more representative of their opinions. Which would happen if we had a 4 party system.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Ruthie's Avatar
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    @DiscoBiscuit: How would the members of the international body be chosen?

    @Halla: ("Is it possible to eliminate parties all together and vote on issues, or do you think that is oversimplification?") I think eliminating political parties would be a REALLY bad idea. Unfortunately (unfortunately in my mind at least), with the rise of internet-fundraising and alternative media, political parties are already weakened, and if the trend continues, could have very little influence. I think a lot of the problems we've had in the past decade or so are a result of a weakening party system.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Ruthie's Avatar
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    @DiscoBiscuit: Did you really just use the phrase, "intellectual laziness in the American populace?" I was all for having a nice, respectful debate, but this is one of my major pet peeves about libbies... they're all so certain of their own intellectual superiority.

  10. #20
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    @DiscoBiscuit: How would the members of the international body be chosen?
    A global referendum which would function much like the referendum I described in my earlier post(just scaled up). In fact, the referendum in the US could be used as a proof of concept for a global referendum which would be used to elect the international members. Obviously there are millions of obstacles to creating a global election like this, but I think mankind will soon have the technology to pull it off.

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