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  1. #51

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    I don't see much of a problem with the young people I work with. They are just young, no worse than I was at that age.

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    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    The other thing, though, does seem to be that the early 20-somethings don't ... ugh, I hate to say this ... respect authority. In that they don't understand that someone who has been at the firm for 25 years and worked her way up from the job the 20-something is doing actually DOES know more about how the job should be done, so it would save everyone a lot of time if they would just do what they're told. But they seem very Me-oriented rather than task-oriented, and they argue.
    Of course...since when young people really respected authority? It wouldn't need to be authority if respect was automatic.

    I've noticed that a lot of young people are babies. They never had chores. They often don't know how to do anything for themselves. I had hired my cousin to help me with a few things we needed around my father's house. We were cooking dinner for my father and I needed a can of tomato sauce. My cousin had never used a can opener. He is 20.
    Don't know anybody that doesn't know how to use a can opener.
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  3. #53
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    I encounter these sorts of scenarios at my house on a regular basis, but it's with my 14- and 15-year-old children, and they are occasions for discipline. For example: My wife was cooking something on the stove one evening. Our four-year-old daughter wanted to see what was in the pan, so she slid the dog food bin (essentially a big Tupperware bucket with lid) over to the stove and stood up on it to look while my wife's attention was elseswhere. Daughter stood on the bin and it tipped, dumping daughter on top of the now-sideways bin, breaking the plastic beyond repair and scattering dog food on the kitchen floor.

    Wife runs in, checks out young daughter and, having ascertained that the four-year-old is fine, proceeds to get upset over the broken bin. "We can't afford to replace this right now!" she moans, which is correct, if unhelpful.

    Enter my fifteen-year-old daughter, a.k.a. The Cruel Queen. In a snide tone of voice she tells her mother... to her face, mind you... "Stop crying over a stupid dog food bin. We'll buy another one."

    Before wife can respond, I'm in the room saying "[Daughter], you're not allowed to talk to your mother that way. Get out of the kitchen." My primary goal at this point is to separate mother from daughter so it doesn't turn into a real argument.

    Elder Daughter heaves a huge sigh and exclaims "Well I'm right! She gets all upset over a stupid dog food container!"

    I lock eyes with her. "You're not helping," I intone. "Go."

    She returns my gaze. "I wasn't trying to help," she asserts.

    "I know," I say.

    By this time my wife has regained the power of speech. "You never try to help!" she says.

    "Get out of the kitchen!" I tell Elder Daughter sternly, pointing at the door. She rolls her eyes and flounces out... after five years of ballet training, she knows how to make an exit.

    What Elder Daughter fails to understand is that I'm not there to debate the relative merits of her ethical position. I'm there to see her do what I've told her to do. It was a "we're not having this conversation" moment, and not particularly ENTP of me if I do say.

    I expect this occasionally out of my teenagers. If they still behave this way on the far side of college, I will have failed them on that point.

  4. #54
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    So in honor of the "I don't like my prof I think he should be fired" thread I started considering if it is actually a difference in generations. I recently read about how the 20 somethings have a totally different work ethic than the boomers and it's causing problems in the workplace.

    Survey Reveals Alarming Lack of Generational Workplace Interaction | workforce.com

    Is one little article about it. I need to find the original but I can't remember where I read it.

    Basically the idea is that the youngins think that they don't have to work if they don't like the work, they don't think they have to work hard, all the time.

    I will look for the article but I wanted to start a thread on it.
    A few things to note here.

    First, things are a ton harder now than they once were. Yeu used to drop out of high school, walk into a store, say "I want a job" and work 40 hours a week for the rest of yeur life.

    These days, yeu have to have a well written resume, multiple referances, and experience, to get into WALMART OF ALL PLACES >.<

    And then yeur hours can easily exceed 60+ hours a week. The profession I'm currently training for is not unheard of to have 100+ hour weeks...

    Toss in that if yeu don't have high school yeu'll need 2 jobs, both full time, plus a roommate or spouse. Further add that yeu *MUST* go to college/university to get anything better than minimum wage these days, and that the costs are excessive ($17,000 tuition alone for my first year here...), and that north america works 40 hours per week, while europe only works 35 standard?

    Really, at which point is this generation lazy?

    Oh yeah, because alot of them ARE. Many of them just don't do crap, or when they do, they do it poorly. Sigh.

    I've had to work in alot of customer related positions, and customer service people are generally suck.

    Of course, the treatment of customer service people and their pay is also suck. Yeu get given ridiculously outrageous requirements to fulfill, nil for job security, people treat yeu like dirt, and will make total lies up to get someone fired just because they were having a bad day and wanted someone to suffer. I can't possibly imagine why anyone would resent being given minimum wage for putting up with this.

    Anyways... onto the more specific questions.

    Do you think there is a difference in the generations?

    Of course there's a difference. It's not as large as people think though, and nostalgia always taints perception. People never remember the way things 'really' were. Life was 'harder' and people 'worked harder' to compensate. Pft no they didn't. In some cases, yes, in most cases, no.

    Is this a good or bad thing?
    Both honestly. For a multitude of reasons.

    How is it going to affect American companies?
    This assumes that the answer was that it was "yes" to the first question. However, in terms of how it affects them? Same as it affects any company anywheres in the world. The world is dynamic and changing, rather than static and stagnant. Those companies which realize we're not in the 1950's anymore will do well. Those who don't have management with any clue WTH they're doing will fail as they always have.

    And a bonus question:
    Why do so many people live in their parent's basements now?
    Costs have gone up significantly, per my original post. Yeu used to be able to move out at 18 without finishing high school, and make quite a descent wage with little effort.

    These days it requires far more money just to get out on yeur own, and everything's against yeu. After having made this transition recently myself, I've realized just how harsh it really is out here, and why so many people aren't able to do it. Honestly I'm not sure that *I* can do it, good grades and working hard don't get yeu very far these days. To go to college for 2 years it's going to cost me approximately $60,000 - $65,000. Without this, I would be stuck with minimum wage for the rest of my life.

    When my parents were my age, they didn't even go to college. Actually that's not true, my father did, he dropped out shortly after starting though. There was no need for them to rely on their parents, and unfortunately, they are of the "idiot management" type that don't realize the world's changed since their time. Yeu can't just go out and work minimum wage forever and hope to get anywheres in life anymore. It takes a heavy amount of initial investment just to get started, and the resources to do so are shrinking, while the costs are increasing... the largest loan I was able to get was $10,000 / year. My expences are 30k/year... I'm going to be stuck working nearly full time *PLUS* school, so about 30hr/week school, 30hr/week work, 20hr/week homework. Yeah 80 hour weeks... minimum ;_;

    Alot of people can't do that... and without some hefty debt, alot of people can't even afford to do that much. It's no surprise that they're stuck living with their parents forever... there's just not enough money to do anything about it. Unless their parents pay their way, it's a hideously rough ride... if their parents didn't save for their college or university costs at all, because of being low wages themselves, chances are almost 100% guaranteed that child won't be living on their own.

    There's alot of other factors too but those're the biggest ones right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    A few things to note here.

    First, things are a ton harder now than they once were. Yeu used to drop out of high school, walk into a store, say "I want a job" and work 40 hours a week for the rest of yeur life.

    These days, yeu have to have a well written resume, multiple referances, and experience, to get into WALMART OF ALL PLACES >.<

    You made some extremely pertinent points, but I'd just like to give a frame of reference to this statement here - let's take Dorothea Dix, pioneer of mental health in the 19th century. Was she a PhD in psychology? Did she go to college at least to specialize in nursing? No, as a matter of fact she hardly even went to elementary or high school. With very little formal education she was given an opportunity to affect the entire psychiatric community, and shaped it as what we know today in monumental ways.

    I can't imagine a high school drop-out, no matter how intelligent insightful creative empathetic sympathetic they were, being given anything even close to a chance to do such a thing.

    The system is set up to award people who can jump through certain hoops. People who are good hoop jumpers - no matter that they might not be particularly intelligent or inventive or insightful - are the ones who get ahead in our current culture.

    A society that rewards Paris Hilton for being Paris Hilton is a society made of complete and utter FAIL.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    A society that rewards Paris Hilton for being Paris Hilton is a society made of complete and utter FAIL.

    Why is that?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Why is that?
    Because she doesn't contribute anything meaningful to the society. Rewarding someone for simply being the pretty daughter of a billionaire, while loads of other people with more talent, education, skill, ambition, intelligence, and work ethic...even greater physical beauty... struggle is a bullshit society.

    You can't hold up a useless person as a role model then expect the young people to get the message that being useful is the way to get rewarded. Because it often isn't even true - some of the hardest working people I know are either poor or middle class, not wealthy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Because she doesn't contribute anything meaningful to the society. Rewarding someone for simply being the pretty daughter of a billionaire, while loads of other people with more talent, education, skill, ambition, intelligence, and work ethic...even greater physical beauty... struggle is a bullshit society.
    She's done modeling, product spokesperson work, a book, a TV show, an album, and several movie roles, and she has made people a ton of money. The music was even pretty good. She has generated probably hundreds of millions of dollars into the economy, which is pretty fucking meaningful. Is she a great artist? No. Is she stupid? Dumber than average, probably. Is she a good person? I have no idea. She has without doubt done a lot of things as an adult. Have you done anything close?


    You can't hold up a useless person as a role model then expect the young people to get the message that being useful is the way to get rewarded. Because it often isn't even true - some of the hardest working people I know are either poor or middle class, not wealthy.
    Hard work is not the realm of any class or race or ethnicity. And who made you the arbiter of "usefulness?" As I've shown, she provides a lot of utility to the economy. Are there better people to look up to? Absolutely. But there are FAR worse, including many politicians, CEO's, professors, lawyers, doctors, and other "useful" people.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    She's done modeling, product spokesperson work, a book, a TV show, an album, and several movie roles, and she has made people a ton of money. The music was even pretty good. She has generated probably hundreds of millions of dollars into the economy, which is pretty fucking meaningful. Is she a great artist? No. Is she stupid? Dumber than average, probably. Is she a good person? I have no idea. She has without doubt done a lot of things as an adult. Have you done anything close?

    She has generated hundreds of millions of dollars into the economy by exploiting her grandfather's name. I don't know of anyone except you who is not a ten year old girl that thinks anything that Paris Hilton did was the result of talent. Her acting was terrible, and her music was a "one hit wonder." Paris simply generated income based upon her name. It's not hard to make money if you have money, despite lacking intelligence, ethics, education, and common sense.

    As a matter of fact, too, her grandfather was a piece of shit. The Hilton fortune was not made honestly through hard work or anything else honorable or respectable. Look up the first Nicky Hilton. Go ahead. Of course, with your beliefs you'll probably admire him for the simple fact that he generated income. Tell me - do you admire mafia bosses and drug lords too? Because they make lots of money!




    Hard work is not the realm of any class or race or ethnicity. And who made you the arbiter of "usefulness?" As I've shown, she provides a lot of utility to the economy. Are there better people to look up to? Absolutely. But there are FAR worse, including many politicians, CEO's, professors, lawyers, doctors, and other "useful" people.
    Yeah, her grandfather was probably a worse person than she is. Which makes my point even clearer. The simple fact is this: if Paris Hilton was the pretty daughter of a farmer or a retail manager, she would be most likely be a stripper or a hopeful contestant on American Idol. You're obviously a fan, to the point of your reply being guffaw inducing humorous, so I know nothing I say will have meaning to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    She has generated hundreds of millions of dollars into the economy by exploiting her grandfather's name. I don't know of anyone except you who is not a ten year old girl that thinks anything that Paris Hilton did was the result of talent. Her acting was terrible, and her music was a "one hit wonder." Paris simply generated income based upon her name. It's not hard to make money if you have money, despite lacking intelligence, ethics, education, and common sense.
    I didn't say she was talented. I said she was useful and successful. There are THOUSANDS of people who are untalented and wealthy. You obviously dislike her because of her inherited wealth, and that is a stupid way to be. What exactly is unethical about making money in the entertainment industry again? And she did receive some decent education before she got expelled from school. I don't really come down on people too hard for breaking the rules at snooty prep schools. I did it all through high school myself (although I didn't have the luxury of ordering limos to campus). She did manage to get her GED.


    As a matter of fact, too, her grandfather was a piece of shit. The Hilton fortune was not made honestly through hard work or anything else honorable or respectable. Look up the first Nicky Hilton. Go ahead. Of course, with your beliefs you'll probably admire him for the simple fact that he generated income. Tell me - do you admire mafia bosses and drug lords too? Because they make lots of money!
    Her great-grandfather Conrad Hilton, Sr. was the one who started the Hilton Hotel chain, not his son Conrad Jr. ("Nicky"). And Zsa Zsa Gabor accused Conrad Sr. of raping her while they were married, which, if true, is disgusting.


    Yeah, her grandfather was probably a worse person than she is. Which makes my point even clearer. The simple fact is this: if Paris Hilton was the pretty daughter of a farmer or a retail manager, she would be most likely be a stripper or a hopeful contestant on American Idol. You're obviously a fan, to the point of your reply being guffaw inducing humorous, so I know nothing I say will have meaning to you.
    I am not really a fan. Her show was silly, her movie roles pretty terrible. Her album was surprisingly good. I don't find her that attractive, either. Nice body, but her nose really messes up her face. I find her sister much more attractive, but she is a racist tool. A good friend of mine from college grew up with the both of them, and they were specifically left off the guest list for her 21st birthday party.

    Soooooo. . . do you ever stop being ignorant?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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