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  1. #41
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Isn't that a contradiction in terms?
    The problem with language is that it encourages people to think literally. You don't think it takes work to relax? Of course it does. My entire life has been built around ensuring that I have the maximum amount of leisure. This does not just happen. You have to go after it with everything you have.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  2. #42
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    You have to go after it with everything you have.
    I'm not really built that way.

    I suppose I'll just have work hard enough to ensure I'll be able to keep working, because I can't put everything I have into something. I feel the need to hold something back.

    I'm willing to work, but I'm not willing to devote everything to it, because it doesn't mean that much to me. I'm not going to give it 110%, I'm just going to give it 80%, because I need 20% of what I've got for myself.

  3. #43
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    The current generation seem to want and expect much more. They are more clued up about the world operates and also much less prepared to do menial things. I notice this a lot with the graduate intake where I work. Where it was once accepted that the new'uns will do some filing and photocopying, suddenly it's "beneath" this generation. More often than I've seen in the last 15 years, anyway!
    It's just stupid to spend time and money to go to graduate school to be employed for filing and photocopying I wouldn't even have finished high school if I wanted to do that. It's also economically inefficient to employ specialized people for menial tasks. This said, if there's nobody else that's been hired for the job, it also makes sense for the youngest person to do it, since he's the most likely to be inexperienced.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  4. #44
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    The current generation seem to want and expect much more. They are more clued up about the world operates and also much less prepared to do menial things. I notice this a lot with the graduate intake where I work. Where it was once accepted that the new'uns will do some filing and photocopying, suddenly it's "beneath" this generation. More often than I've seen in the last 15 years, anyway!
    Well, that's not true of me. I honestly think I would be lucky to get a job doing filing or photocopying, in fact I really think it's too much to ask for... I've been so discouraged by the requirements many organizations have that I'm becoming concerned that I might have to settle for something like waiting tables and washing dishes for less than minimum wage, if I can even get that.

    The problem is that the college grads are getting those jobs, which means the requirements for them are so high that someone like me with a High School Diploma, more than qualified for the job, is being pushed out of it by people with more qualifications due to job scarcity.

    But seriously... I'm fine with filing and copying. I kind of want that job.

  5. #45
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    People nowadays are also largely too smart - or at least too informed - to be pushed around with corporate bullshit like some older people I've met. Some of the garbage that goes on in large companies is outrageous and dehumanizing. So maybe younger people are saying they aren't going to put up with that crap. I think that's a good thing.

    On the other hand, if indeed it really is laziness, then that is a problem.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Well, that's not true of me. I honestly think I would be lucky to get a job doing filing or photocopying, in fact I really think it's too much to ask for... I've been so discouraged by the requirements many organizations have that I'm becoming concerned that I might have to settle for something like waiting tables and washing dishes for less than minimum wage, if I can even get that.

    The problem is that the college grads are getting those jobs, which means the requirements for them are so high that someone like me with a High School Diploma, more than qualified for the job, is being pushed out of it by people with more qualifications due to job scarcity.

    But seriously... I'm fine with filing and copying. I kind of want that job.
    Umm, being a college grad is usually a detriment when an employer looking for unskilled labor. They figure the graduate will leave as soon as they get a "real job", so all that time and money spent training that graduate could be wasted.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    As a society and a culture, we say we value "hard work;" however, if you really look at what we really learn in school, we learn that the amount of work that you put in doesn't mean shit in terms of grading. Students who work their asses off and still come up short because they're not the brightest crayon in the box still get poor or passing grades--not A's and B's. People who slack off and cheat get rewarded with good grades, because in the end, the ends justifies the means. We SAY we value hard work, but at the end of the day, the means in which we grade and value work actually says we value RESULTS, and results only.
    I agree, and the "result" in the workplace is what value you appear to produce. You can get an A by studying hard or cheating. You can appear to produce value by working hard or pretending to.

    My observation has been that younger employees work harder, faster, and pick up new skills more quickly. It is always the senior employees I see who work at a snail's pace and adapt slowly to emerging business practices. Younger workers do not have years of proprietary knowledge and experience to cement their position so they compensate in other ways.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I see it in a couple of ways -- one, the older people don't understand that the divide between work and not-work is diminishing. I'm basically on call 24/7 during certain stages of my work, and I can do an entire day's work via email from home. But the 70 year old who sits next to me thinks I have an attendance problem and no respect for the rules when she doesn't see me sitting at my desk. She thinks my boss goofs off all day because he often doesn't come into the building until some time between 4 and 6 pm. She doesn't realize we've been emailing since 7 am.

    The other thing, though, does seem to be that the early 20-somethings don't ... ugh, I hate to say this ... respect authority. In that they don't understand that someone who has been at the firm for 25 years and worked her way up from the job the 20-something is doing actually DOES know more about how the job should be done, so it would save everyone a lot of time if they would just do what they're told. But they seem very Me-oriented rather than task-oriented, and they argue.

    Small example, I asked a 23 year old to put some supplies in cabinets in a certain room and make sure not to leave them sitting out, or they would disappear. A couple of hours later she emailed me that the cabinets were full, so she left the stuff on the counter, was that ok? I said no, that's exactly what I told you NOT to do. Consolidate some of the stuff in the cabinets and make room, please. She wrote back that she was busy. LOL I said fine, it's on you if that stuff disappears, because I'm busy, too -- that's why I asked you to take care of it for me. A bit later I get an email that she did shuffle things around to make room and did put the things away. That kind of thing happens a lot -- you tell them specifically what you want, and they do whatever they please. Their own supervisor reports to me that they tell her she's condescending and mean. They don't get that it's better to some extent to say that stuff amongst yourselves rather than to your supervisor's face. That's just a practical matter -- the supervisor writes the 20-somethings evaluation at the end of the year, not the other way around.

  9. #49
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    I've noticed that a lot of young people are babies. They never had chores. They often don't know how to do anything for themselves. I had hired my cousin to help me with a few things we needed around my father's house. We were cooking dinner for my father and I needed a can of tomato sauce. My cousin had never used a can opener. He is 20.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  10. #50
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    I think the problem is that it's so irresistible to complain about the other's working styles and think of each other's as inferior and because you're so busy thinking of each other as inferior, each side won't make concessions.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

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