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  1. #31
    . Blank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    The whole premise of this thread is untrue. People are working more now than ever. In the 50s and 60s, you could have one parent work a blue-collar job and take care of the whole family, now people can be working 2 or 3 jobs with not enough to get by.

    Average work week hours keep expanding, even as compensation for those hours stagnates. Some say a 70 hour work week is in danger of becoming the new norm. Yet France was able to lower the work week to 35 hours, with no loss in productivity.
    That still doesn't say much about the lack of communication between young and older workers.
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Si = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ni = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Se = 11[][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fe = 0

    -----------------
    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

  2. #32
    Senior Member millerm277's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Average work week hours keep expanding, even as compensation for those hours stagnates. Some say a 70 hour work week is in danger of becoming the new norm. Yet France was able to lower the work week to 35 hours, with no loss in productivity.
    Well, duh. Think about your job (assuming you work a normal office job.), how many hours a day are you REALLY being productive? I bet it's definitely not all 8, or 9, or 10 hours that you're there. Lets see, assuming you're a "good" employee, you're probably still spending a good hour over the course of the day on the web, an hour for lunch, some time talking with coworkers, etc.... It's probably about half that time you're actually "working", maybe 75% max. Cut the time you're there in half, and odds are, you'll just work the whole time, and save the not doing s*** time for after work. Just saying....


    As for lack of communication between younger and older workers, I don't really see it. Yes, there are some young people that refuse to learn to work in the adult world, and some old people that refuse to adapt, but, as a whole...they don't seem to have that much difficulty communicating. Hell, I managed to fit in as a 17 year old intern in a place where every person around me was 40+. It's much more a matter of do both sides actually WANT to communicate/learn to communicate with the other...
    I-95%, S-84%, T-89%, P-84%

  3. #33
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millerm277 View Post
    Well, duh. Think about your job (assuming you work a normal office job.), how many hours a day are you REALLY being productive? I bet it's definitely not all 8, or 9, or 10 hours that you're there. Lets see, assuming you're a "good" employee, you're probably still spending a good hour over the course of the day on the web, an hour for lunch, some time talking with coworkers, etc.... It's probably about half that time you're actually "working", maybe 75% max. Cut the time you're there in half, and odds are, you'll just work the whole time, and save the not doing s*** time for after work. Just saying....
    So no generation besides Generation Y has ever frittered away time spent at work?

    For some reason I find this hard to believe, especially concerning lunch hours.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  4. #34
    Senior Member millerm277's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    So no generation besides Generation Y has ever frittered away time spent at work?
    That wasn't the point I was making.....it was more of why productivity is the same with 35 hours a week as with 40, and why increasing the hours to 70 a week, most likely doesn't improve productivity by the amount it would on paper.
    I-95%, S-84%, T-89%, P-84%

  5. #35
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    Do you think there is a difference in the generations?
    Is this a good or bad thing?
    How is it going to affect American companies?


    And a bonus question:
    Why do so many people live in their parent's basements now?
    The american dream, to have lots of stuff and want for nothing.
    Now the reality check, your children have everything and don't see why they should plough their lives into an uncaring system to maintain it.

    Edit - As for American companies, judging by the philosophies espoused over here, until they learn a bit more F they aren't going anywhere fast because eventually even the third world will expect more money and less hours.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #36
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    The current generation seem to want and expect much more. They are more clued up about the world operates and also much less prepared to do menial things. I notice this a lot with the graduate intake where I work. Where it was once accepted that the new'uns will do some filing and photocopying, suddenly it's "beneath" this generation. More often than I've seen in the last 15 years, anyway!

  7. #37
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Honestly? I'm lazy because I don't feel like it makes a difference to anyone else whether I work or not.

    And then I found that despite having a diploma, I wasn't in any better position to get a job that I was before I got it. The people around me were getting jobs because of who they knew and what they'd already done... the diploma barely meant anything. If I'd known that, I'd have spent High School socializing and blowing off my schoolwork. I feel like the people around me got rewarded for doing frivolous things, while I got nothing for doing what I was supposed to do.

    The other reason is that, well, working hard just makes me depressed because it feels like spinning my wheels, especially when I'm expected to do it under my own power. It never gets me anything except silence, no matter how many applications I turn in, because no one even wants to look at them due to my inexperience and lack of qualifications due to inexperience.

    In other words, I'm lazy because I've learned that my work is not rewarded or appreciated by others, and I'm just supposed to value it as a virtue in and of itself? Umm... sorry, no.
    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    This is a disaffected generation. They believe that work isn't supposed to be pleasant at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by avolkiteshvara View Post
    Alot of it stems from child psychology theories from the 1970s that said reward your child no matter what. Third place means you are third best. No one is a loser.
    Quote Originally Posted by sLiPpY View Post
    Lots of under 30's walking around with Master's degree's who can't find work that pays more than a secretary of yore.

    There's an infinately higher return on a two year technical degree, in auto mechanics, radiology, physical therapist assistant, etc. AC & Heating, etc. and higher demand.
    These are all fantastic points.

    For me its the combination of the above. It pisses me off when baby boomers whinge about how lazy and ungrateful we are. Who raised us to be that way? My childhood consisted of being told repeatedly, from every possible source, how special I am, how I can be anything I want, the world is my oyster. The problem is that no one pointed out that hard work was needed. In fact children are rewarded for 'participation', which can (and frequently does) consist of the miminal effort possible. Now you say I that have to flog my guts out and there's not even a reward for that? We have been primed for a fantasy world, not the real world. Even the most responsible, hardworking and conscientious among us have to fight what we have been taught.

    Also the hardworking, self-suficiency of the Baby Boomers is not a result of their inherent virtue. They are just as much a product of their circumstances as Gen Y is. My parents said they would have died rather than move back in with their parents after moving out. They moved out and got jobs because they couldn't wait to actually have some freedom and make their own choices, after living under the strict control of their parents. I'm friends with my parents. My mum says she could never be; even now when she disagrees with her mother she gets told off. Also the work environment was different then. There was real stability in the workforce, the hours were shorter, the work load was less demanding etc etc. I'm not saying it was easy for them (it certainly wasn't), I'm saying comparing then to now is apples and oranges. Even between gen x and y.

    Despite all this I do admit a lot of the negative stereotypes of Gen Y are true. All these spoilt brats are out there making it hard for employers to trust anyone under 30, and I get painted with the same brush. But shutting Gen Y down and failing to adapt (even a little) to their working style is a bad idea. Why bother seek higher education if its doesn't count for shit when you graduate? Why bother putting in more effort if your work is not valued? What's the point of company loyalty if I get nothing out of it?

    Excuse me, if I'm not grateful.

  8. #38
    . Blank's Avatar
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    I think that subtly addresses another critical point, which I think should be brought to the forefront.

    As a society and a culture, we say we value "hard work;" however, if you really look at what we really learn in school, we learn that the amount of work that you put in doesn't mean shit in terms of grading. Students who work their asses off and still come up short because they're not the brightest crayon in the box still get poor or passing grades--not A's and B's. People who slack off and cheat get rewarded with good grades, because in the end, the ends justifies the means. We SAY we value hard work, but at the end of the day, the means in which we grade and value work actually says we value RESULTS, and results only.
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Si = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ni = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Se = 11[][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fe = 0

    -----------------
    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

  9. #39
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    I think that subtly addresses another critical point, which I think should be brought to the forefront.

    As a society and a culture, we say we value "hard work;" however, if you really look at what we really learn in school, we learn that the amount of work that you put in doesn't mean shit in terms of grading. Students who work their asses off and still come up short because they're not the brightest crayon in the box still get poor or passing grades--not A's and B's. People who slack off and cheat get rewarded with good grades, because in the end, the ends justifies the means. We SAY we value hard work, but at the end of the day, the means in which we grade and value work actually says we value RESULTS, and results only.
    Takes a lot of work to succeed effortlessly.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  10. #40
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Takes a lot of work to succeed effortlessly.
    Isn't that a contradiction in terms?

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